Game 18 Toronto Raptors vs. Milwaukee Bucks - 7:30 PM EST Wed Jan 27/21 - TSN

[planetmars]

What makes me okay with Pascal's extension is that both Ben and Jamal are also struggling after getting their's. But yeah he was bad last night. My internal hope is that Pascal will rebound with a crowd energizing him.. but I'm not really thinking that will solve his issues.

Masai was able to trade Gay and Bargnani.. Pascal can and will be traded if he can't return to his winning ways, but Masai is going to give him another year at least before he does anything like that (assuming he's a lost cause).


I know it sucks to have one-way players.. but this version of the Raptors is making me long for one-way offensive producers. I'd love to have DeMar on this team right now. That guy could get into the paint, get a shot off or a foul for free throws. He had a way to manufacture buckets. Nobody on this team has that knack. Maybe Norm but he's so inconsistent.

[The Great One]

One already proved he is a sidekick on a championship team, second one is a role player, third one's career fell off due to injury. Take your pick.

This whole "Siakam is a proven sidekick on a championship team" narrative is such bullshit.

Here are the top teams in the NBA right now. Lakers, Clippers, Jazz, Bucks, Sixers, Celtics, Nets. If Siakam is such a "proven" guy. Do you think the Clippers would trade Paul George for Siakam? would that make them better? Do you think the Celtics would trade Brown for Siakam? Gobert for Siakam? etc....HELL NO.

Will people ever admit that Kawhi carried them to the championship? or that Lowry was their SECOND best player that year?

Congrats on replacing DanH as the ultimate RR homer.

[The Great One]

There is no decline, because Pascal was never "up there". He had a few hot months to start 2018-19 and then opposing teams adjusted to transition and his spin moves. The "decline" started before the all-star break last year. Opposing teams are now diligent in transition and allowing Pascal to take above the break 3's and mid-range step backs. They are taking away the baseline spin and having a second defender waiting to strip the spin into the lane. And Pascal still has not developed any reliable counters. That's all that has happened.

Pascal needed to come back this year with a tighter handle and more in his bag so that he could get to his spots without losing his dribble (or falling down entirely, smh). Either he did not put in the work, or worse.... he worked really, really hard and it made no difference in his skill level, so this is his ceiling. He had 6 months leading up to the bubble to work on that handle - it's not like he needed a gym for that.

I mean, even if we all say, 'Ok... Pascal's ceiling is a second option', then you're looking at guys like: Khris Middleton, CJ McCollum, PG, Anthony Davis, Harden/Kyrie, Simmons, Jaylen Brown, Jamal Murray, Brogdon, etc.... These guys are all significantly more skilled with the ball than Pascal.

I don't think I've ever seen a guy literally fall down when dribbling as much as Pascal does.

Siakam is an energy guy. He's at his best when he plays hard/plays with a lot of energy/runs all over the floor. The last time I saw that version of Siakam was in 2019. He got paid after that year, now he's just a jump shooter. He's basically Andrea Bargnani who can't shoot.

[MixxAOR]

whole bargnani thing ain't that far off at least offensively

[A.I]

whole bargnani thing ain't that far off at least offensively

Bargnani's issues were never offense, he wasn't a bad offensive player. His rebounding, defense, playmaking were basically non-existent. Also he was the #1 draft pick which makes the whole thing worse.

[golden]

Bargnani's issues were never offense, he wasn't a bad offensive player. His rebounding, defense, playmaking were basically non-existent. Also he was the #1 draft pick which makes the whole thing worse.

Bargs career ORTG was 103, which is slightly below league average (105) during that period. He wasn't a bad offensive player.... but he wasn't a good one either.

[golden]

Siakam is an energy guy. He's at his best when he plays hard/plays with a lot of energy/runs all over the floor. The last time I saw that version of Siakam was in 2019. He got paid after that year, now he's just a jump shooter. He's basically Andrea Bargnani who can't shoot.

Siakam can't really be that early 2019 energy guy again because teams are picking him up in transition. He's #1 on opposing team's defense game plans now. He still runs the floor hard in transition, but that touchdown pass from Lowry isn't there anymore. There are 2 & 3 defenders back there. In general, that's the gameplan to stop the Raptors, with or without Siakam.... get back in transition. Celtics did that beautifully in the bubble.

[The Claw Reborn]

I think the playbook is already out on how to limit Pascal and expose his flaws. Playoff contenders have his number and not much for Nick Nurse to hide those weaknesses with this core going forward.

Financially only way to improve this team is to utilize his 30 million to trade him OR a combination of Van Vleet’s 21 million contract and 1-2 players.

It is a matter of choice. One of them may play as the the collateral damage for this team to move forward.

Reminding again that No transcendental player in the 2021 draft that would elevate this team to another level with the core of Van Vleet/ Siakam and OG.

[G__Deane]

whole bargnani thing ain't that far off at least offensively

I cringe every time I think that bargs is this franchise's 3rd all time leading scorer.
How many knew he was above Vince Quitter-Carter?

[chris]

I cringe every time I think that bargs is this franchise's 3rd all time leading scorer.
How many knew he was above Vince Quitter-Carter?

he's 5th in total points after demar, bosh, lowry, and carter. he's 8th in ppg.

[The Great One]

I cringe every time I think that bargs is this franchise's 3rd all time leading scorer.
How many knew he was above Vince Quitter-Carter?

Not surprised. Bargnani's a good shooter and scorer. He had a couple of seasons where he averaged 20+ppg for the Raptors. The knock on him obviously was his defence plus he's a soft finisher. If he played in this era he'd be way more respected because he's a 4-5 that can shoot. We're probably talking a 20+m player. And i'm sure that if he was on this current Raptors team, he'd be their go to guy offensively.

Siakam is like a cross between Bargnani and Gay. He likes to shoot jump shots, he's a soft/horrible finisher plus he's a brick master like Gay. Someone need to tell the guy that he's shooting 25% from 3. Stop shooting 3's. And stop shooting fadeaway. I've never seen a horrible mid range shooter consistently shoot fadeaways. *facepalm*

[Dvdvideo]

I wouldn't give up on Siakam just yet, he has the tools and definately the defensive ability needed to help the team. Not sure exactly the adjustment needed, but there is still hope. He's long, fast, has a decent jump shot, and a wicked spin move.
I feel like the team either uses him in 1 on 1 (which the other team is cheating on or doubling), or just another player on the team who gets random touches. Something in that regard needs a change for him to succeed.

[G__Deane]

he's 5th in total points after demar, bosh, lowry, and carter. he's 8th in ppg.

Sorry I knew that after watching Lowry climb over 10,000 last night (solidly in 3rd). I still laugh seeing Bargnani in 5th all time for the franchise

[Shredder]

I wouldn't give up on Siakam just yet, he has the tools and definately the defensive ability needed to help the team. Not sure exactly the adjustment needed, but there is still hope. He's long, fast, has a decent jump shot, and a wicked spin move.
I feel like the team either uses him in 1 on 1 (which the other team is cheating on or doubling), or just another player on the team who gets random touches. Something in that regard needs a change for him to succeed.

I also want to see him back in Toronto after the pandemic. Every person is handling this differently. If we look at his numbers in Tdot vs bubble/tampa there is something there. Maybe it's comfort in Toronto, maybe he's bit of germaphobe, maybe he's got a little side piece in the big smoke that can't get into the states. Who knows, but regardless the reason, regardless of what we are paying him, I want to see him back in the situation that got that big payday before we do anything with him.

[inthepaint]

I also want to see him back in Toronto after the pandemic. Every person is handling this differently. If we look at his numbers in Tdot vs bubble/tampa there is something there. Maybe it's comfort in Toronto, maybe he's bit of germaphobe, maybe he's got a little side piece in the big smoke that can't get into the states. Who knows, but regardless the reason, regardless of what we are paying him, I want to see him back in the situation that got that big payday before we do anything with him.

Valid points, and I would also add that what help him get his payday was the collective value of the assets around him. Right after the chip we were in a classic situation where the team was was better than the sum of its parts, because of chemistry synergy. For different reasons we then proceeded to piss away assets with nothing in return, so the pressure went on to the ones remaining (Siakam, Fred), and their efficiency (and value) went down.

If we continue to lose assets for nothing (e.g. Lowry walking in free agency), that effect will be compounded.