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Game 38 Toronto Raptors vs Chicago Bulls - 9:00 PM EST Mar 14/21

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  • #76
    The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post
    Set aside that we are down 3 starters...

    but this team has been atrocious defending the three all season

    Raptors are the 7th worse team.

    it seems every scrubs that are out there would circle their calendars when they play the Raptors because they can just station themselves in the corner, spot up and nail an open three then once in a while, these guys would have career nights vs. the Raptors

    Nick Nurse defensive schemes favors defending the middle of the lane. That has been his Achilles.

    the word is out against St. Nick
    The scheme is fine if we had a guy that can protect the paint and allow defenders to drive. The kick will happen, but we collapse because we don't have faith in Baynes or Boucher to be able to do anything, and that has been proven a lot this season. We also play really hard, which tires guys out. So when the ball moves around, we lose our intensity and just give up the free open look. Kyle and Norm have too much responsibility on offense that they tire out on defense more than the others. Their guys get wide open looks from 3 usually.

    For all of Gasol's faults he was pretty good at telling guys where to go on defense. And if they needed to cover someone or not. Does Baynes talk at all during a game? You need the center to be that voice. A guard like Kyle or Fred can't look behind them when guarding the perimeter.


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    • #77
      planetmars wrote: View Post

      The scheme is fine if we had a guy that can protect the paint and allow defenders to drive. The kick will happen, but we collapse because we don't have faith in Baynes or Boucher to be able to do anything, and that has been proven a lot this season. We also play really hard, which tires guys out. So when the ball moves around, we lose our intensity and just give up the free open look. Kyle and Norm have too much responsibility on offense that they tire out on defense more than the others. Their guys get wide open looks from 3 usually.

      For all of Gasol's faults he was pretty good at telling guys where to go on defense. And if they needed to cover someone or not. Does Baynes talk at all during a game? You need the center to be that voice. A guard like Kyle or Fred can't look behind them when guarding the perimeter.

      Yeah, I think Nurse's schemes only work with very high IQ defenders, and especially Gasol, who does nothing on offense, preferring to conserve his energy for defense. He's also anchoring the Lakers top ranked defense this year, but Laker fans are not satisfied and want more than just a one-way player. With AD out, that's shifting too much offensive load onto Lebron.

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      • #78
        golden wrote: View Post

        Yeah, I think Nurse's schemes only work with very high IQ defenders, and especially Gasol, who does nothing on offense, preferring to conserve his energy for defense. He's also anchoring the Lakers top ranked defense this year, but Laker fans are not satisfied and want more than just a one-way player. With AD out, that's shifting too much offensive load onto Lebron.
        Yeah with Gasol you have to have 4 good offensive producers. Total zero on offense.

        So hard to find a good 2-way center. But 1-way defensive bigs are hard to find as well. I can see why Utah gave Gobert all that $$$

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        • #79
          ^^^

          Vucecic is someone I would go after if ever there is a viable three team trade for Kyle to go to a contender.

          I am not sure if Orlando would be so willing to give him up. Gordon may just go first.

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          • #80
            The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post
            ^^^

            Vucecic is someone I would go after if ever there is a viable three team trade for Kyle to go to a contender.

            I am not sure if Orlando would be so willing to give him up. Gordon may just go first.
            Would you give up our FRP for him? He's probably gettable but would require at least one FRP, maybe two.

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            • #81
              planetmars wrote: View Post

              Would you give up our FRP for him? He's probably gettable but would require at least one FRP, maybe two.
              PM, that maybe a deal breaker if its up to Masai.

              He stayed away from that deal as the third team to facilitate the move of Harden to BKN. Cleveland gave up a FRP to Houston and a 2nd round pick to BKN to acquire Jarrett Allen and Prince

              though we are talking about Vucecic vs a lesser talented player like Allen.

              Masai always wanted to have the upperhand on every deal he makes.

              He cannot even make up his mind of his future, suspect he wants more what MLSE can give him.

              Good chance MLSE would ever rubber stamp any major trade move at this time without Masai’s long term commitment first
              Last edited by The Claw Reborn; Mon Mar 15, 2021, 07:43 PM.

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              • #82
                3-way trade Denver/Toronto/Orlando:
                http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yftaosrf

                Denver: Lowry, Clark
                Orlando: Harris, Barton, FRP Toronto
                Toronto: Vucevic

                Denver starting unit: Murray, Lowry, MP Jr, Millsap, Jokic
                Toronto starting unit: FVV, Norm, OG, Pascal, Vucevic
                Orlando starting unit: Carter Williams, Harris, Barton, Gordon, Bamba/Birch/Aminu

                Can try to get a FRP from Denver, but with Kyle being a UFA and probably non-commital, they may not want to do that. Harris sort of sucks, but Barton is good, and can get a FRP for Vuc that could end up being in the 12-17 range this year.

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                • #83
                  planetmars wrote: View Post
                  3-way trade Denver/Toronto/Orlando:
                  http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yftaosrf

                  Denver: Lowry, Clark
                  Orlando: Harris, Barton, FRP Toronto
                  Toronto: Vucevic

                  Denver starting unit: Murray, Lowry, MP Jr, Millsap, Jokic
                  Toronto starting unit: FVV, Norm, OG, Pascal, Vucevic
                  Orlando starting unit: Carter Williams, Harris, Barton, Gordon, Bamba/Birch/Aminu

                  Can try to get a FRP from Denver, but with Kyle being a UFA and probably non-commital, they may not want to do that. Harris sort of sucks, but Barton is good, and can get a FRP for Vuc that could end up being in the 12-17 range this year.
                  not sure, Orlando would be left with Isaac as their bigman especially Gordon also wanting out...

                  To me the closest three team deal is Kyle going to the Clippers, Vucecic to Toronto and Zubac and another Clipper player to match salaries plus picks from both Clippers and Toronto to Orlando.

                  Zubac is the back up C of the Clippers, it all depends how badly they want Kyle to play small ball with Serge and Morris as their bigs

                  edit: Is Bamba ready or is he two years away from being two years away? I dont see him being a starting C of any NBA team...
                  Last edited by The Claw Reborn; Mon Mar 15, 2021, 07:56 PM.

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                  • #84
                    The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

                    PM, that maybe a deal breaker if its up to Masai.

                    He stayed away from that deal as the third team to facilitate the move of Harden to BKN. Cleveland gave up a FRP to Houston and a 2nd round pick to BKN to acquire Jarrett Allen and Prince

                    though we are talking about Vucecic vs a lesser talented player like Allen.

                    Masai always wanted to have the upperhand on every deal he makes.

                    He cannot even make up his mind of his future, suspect he wants more what MLSE can give him.

                    Good chance MLSE would ever rubber stamp any major trade move at this time without Masai’s long term commitment first
                    Deadline is March 25th.. have 5 games left between then and now.

                    @Detroit
                    Utah
                    @Cleveland
                    @Houston (B2B)
                    Denver

                    If we go 5-0 then we are 22-22 so right at .500.. and that's best case scenario.

                    Maybe we don't buy and sell instead (ie, we sell Lowry/Norm for picks). Maybe we stand pat. Bobby is here long term and he's our GM. So MLSE will leave it up to him.

                    I'm curious what direction they take here.. .500 at the deadline is pretty sh!tty but we also got struck by bubble Pascal and then Covid.

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                    • #85
                      The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

                      not sure, Orlando would be left with Isaac as their bigman especially Gordon also wanting out...

                      To me the closest three team deal is Kyle going to the Clippers, Vucecic to Toronto and Zubac and another Clipper player to match salaries plus picks from both Clippers and Toronto to Orlando.

                      Zubac is the back up C of the Clippers, it all depends how badly they want Kyle to play small ball with Serge and Morris as their bigs
                      LAC is a tough team to trade with since I believe they are hard capped. Orlando has Bamba.. and can give him more minutes. They can try to draft that Mobley kid if they fall back far enough. They currently have the 4th best pick.

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                      • #86
                        planetmars wrote: View Post

                        Deadline is March 25th.. have 5 games left between then and now.

                        @Detroit
                        Utah
                        @Cleveland
                        @Houston (B2B)
                        Denver

                        If we go 5-0 then we are 22-22 so right at .500.. and that's best case scenario.

                        Maybe we don't buy and sell instead (ie, we sell Lowry/Norm for picks). Maybe we stand pat. Bobby is here long term and he's our GM. So MLSE will leave it up to him.

                        I'm curious what direction they take here.. .500 at the deadline is pretty sh!tty but we also got struck by bubble Pascal and then Covid.
                        Too many uncertainties, it is the most screwed up Raptors season not just the W/L record but everything else.

                        Masai is the key, he turns the wheels of MLSE. IMO, Webster is the Operations guy, but Masai has the last word.

                        MLSE and Masai just cannot come into terms...as of yet.

                        So probably no major trade will happen

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                        • #87
                          planetmars wrote: View Post

                          LAC is a tough team to trade with since I believe they are hard capped. Orlando has Bamba.. and can give him more minutes. They can try to draft that Mobley kid if they fall back far enough. They currently have the 4th best pick.
                          I add an addendum on Bamba...

                          But I agree with you, Clippers are screwed if they dont win it all. Salary cap and future assets.

                          they are so fucked if Kawhi bolts lol

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                          • #88
                            Kyle Lowry is more valuable now to the Clippers than any other player that could be available before the deadline. How desperate they are, we will find out soon.

                            Why a 3rd team and a very significant player going to the Raptors would force the hand of Bobby

                            Los Raptors. Lol (Kyle/ Kawhi/ Serge)

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                            • #89
                              nba_4_life wrote: View Post

                              When they got hit by covid, they were 14th in the east.... got players back and now they are 4th....
                              Yeah, but we were healthy when other teams had COVID and we started the season 2-8, so that didn’t really work for us.

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                              • #90
                                G__Deane wrote: View Post

                                Why wouldn't I watch?
                                I've been a fan since the land before time, I don't pick and choose the games (or seasons) to watch based on their chances of winning...what a weird comment lol

                                And remember prior seasons (different situations) where Lowry and DeMar would low grade but publicly criticize the lack of roster movement at the trade deadline as Colangelo or Masai not having faith in the team while other peer teams attempted to get better? That's where we are now and it's weird that Masai and Bobby appear absent for the most part.
                                Because the varsity isn't playing. It looks like an exhibition game that the Raps are giving some run to the guys looking to make the team. In the steaming world there are literally a hundred choices of what to watch for live sports.



                                Im sure the Raps front office are working the phones like the rest of the league looking to see whats out there. What do you think they're doing ?

                                Standing pat this time through doesn't seem to be much of an option. You can play it out and probably win one round then likely bow out in the 2nd round. Either way next years team will be quite different from the one we see today.

                                So...

                                If you can find help for this years team if you believe that with the right addition (an upgraded big or an Iso wing) you can make a run in a gettable east. You can be a buyer.
                                or
                                You can become a seller and wave goodbye to the championship era and make the trade for Lowry to get players and/or draft picks to begin the retool.

                                I hope they are going to be a buyer but if they wind up selling hope they do well, Kyle gives us something to be happy about one last time.
                                Last edited by Demographic Shift; Mon Mar 15, 2021, 10:52 PM.
                                And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

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