Game 38 Toronto Raptors vs Chicago Bulls - 9:00 PM EST Mar 14/21

[Demographic Shift]

Nick Nurse: "I was talking with (GM Bobby Webster) on the bus on the way over"
This is the first sign in 2 months that Bobby is still employed by the Raptors.

Masai? No evidence


10 fans total and 40 comments on a game thread?

They are down 3 starters.
Which forces you to play the 10th 11th and 12th guys on the roster rotation minutes.
I suppose the show must go on... but you don't have to watch.

This is like boxing when one of the fighters has a broken hand.

[The Great One]

Miami Heat are starting 2 G-League guys (Robinson & Nunn), plus some random guy named KZ Okpala? They got hit by Covid bad early in the season and are now 4th overall & streaking with Bam out.

Has it become blasphemy to say that Nurse isn't as good as Spoelstra when it comes to developing his bench guys? We all love St. Nick, but he isn't perfect. There's a definite trend there with Nurse and the bench, and losing 3 starters has fully exposed that chink in the armor. Our bench guys don't even look like they know how to play the game of basketball at times. Some of that has to be coaching related.

Or maybe Nunn and Robinson are just better players than Davis, Thomas, Yuta and co.? The Raptors/Nurse can't magically turn bad players into good players lol.

Davis plays like a dummy. I've been sayin this ALL YEAR. He's like a poor man's JR Smith. How is that Nurse's fault? and Thomas? If you watch the best catch and shoot shooters in the league - Redick, Robinson, Korver. All they need is a little space to get their shot off. Thomas refuses to shoot unless he's wide, wide, wide open.

[golden]

Or maybe Nunn and Robinson are just better players than Davis, Thomas, Yuta and co.? The Raptors/Nurse can't magically turn bad players into good players lol.

Davis plays like a dummy. I've been sayin this ALL YEAR. He's like a poor man's JR Smith. How is that Nurse's fault? and Thomas? If you watch the best catch and shoot shooters in the league - Redick, Robinson, Korver. All they need is a little space to get their shot off. Thomas refuses to shoot unless he's wide, wide, wide open.

Actually it's kind of the opposite of what you're saying: coaching & system plays a very large part of improving a player's BBIQ and decision-making. And if you watch the best shooters in the league, their teams actually run multiple screen actions for them as a first option to get shots in rhythm with the defense moving. That almost never happens with the Raps offense. It's all random drive & kick, mostly to maximize Fred's main strength.

[MixxAOR]

The reason why Nunn went undrafted is different from why Thomas and Davis went undrafted let's be honest though. And it's not talent related.

[The Great One]

Actually it's kind of the opposite of what you're saying: coaching & system plays a very large part of improving a player's BBIQ and decision-making. And if you watch the best shooters in the league, their teams actually run multiple screen actions for them as a first option to get shots in rhythm with the defense moving. That almost never happens with the Raps offense. It's all random drive & kick, mostly to maximize Fred's main strength.

If it was the other way around - if Nunn and Robinson signed with the Raptors and Davis and Thomas and Yuta and co. signed with the Heat, do you think things would be different? nope. Nunn and Robinson and Yuta and Davis and Thomas would still turn into the players that they are now.

The Spurs are another team known for their player development. Poeltl is still the same player he was in Toronto. Lyles still the same player he was in Utah. Eubanks, Vassell who was a high draft pick. How are these guys not getting any better? should we blame Popovich too?

[Demographic Shift]

Lots of room on the bandwagon this morning...
Excellent seats.still available.

[G__Deane]

Yep. There are definitely levels of Raptor fandom:

Leafs fans
Bandwagon fans (who left when Kawhi did)
Casual fans
Hardcore fans
RR posters

.... and then there are masochists like us, Deaner, who probably watched every game of the Bargnani Era, hell or high water. lol.

haha the lowlight of my life has been defending Bargs as a "7 footer take longer to develop"

[G__Deane]

They are down 3 starters.
Which forces you to play the 10th 11th and 12th guys on the roster rotation minutes.
I suppose the show must go on... but you don't have to watch.

This is like boxing when one of the fighters has a broken hand.

Why wouldn't I watch?
I've been a fan since the land before time, I don't pick and choose the games (or seasons) to watch based on their chances of winning...what a weird comment lol

And remember prior seasons (different situations) where Lowry and DeMar would low grade but publicly criticize the lack of roster movement at the trade deadline as Colangelo or Masai not having faith in the team while other peer teams attempted to get better? That's where we are now and it's weird that Masai and Bobby appear absent for the most part.

[nba_4_life]

Miami Heat are starting 2 G-League guys (Robinson & Nunn), plus some random guy named KZ Okpala? They got hit by Covid bad early in the season and are now 4th overall & streaking with Bam out.

Has it become blasphemy to say that Nurse isn't as good as Spoelstra when it comes to developing his bench guys? We all love St. Nick, but he isn't perfect. There's a definite trend there with Nurse and the bench, and losing 3 starters has fully exposed that chink in the armor. Our bench guys don't even look like they know how to play the game of basketball at times. Some of that has to be coaching related.

When they got hit by covid, they were 14th in the east.... got players back and now they are 4th....

[KeonClark]

Why wouldn't I watch?
I've been a fan since the land before time, I don't pick and choose the games (or seasons) to watch based on their chances of winning...what a weird comment lol

And remember prior seasons (different situations) where Lowry and DeMar would low grade but publicly criticize the lack of roster movement at the trade deadline as Colangelo or Masai not having faith in the team while other peer teams attempted to get better? That's where we are now and it's weird that Masai and Bobby appear absent for the most part.

What do you mean by "appear absent"? They're in Tampa with the team. Masai is always doing interviews, Bobby did the pre game coach presser last week. Do you want to bring cameras in to their team management meetings?

[KeonClark]

When they got hit by covid, they were 14th in the east.... got players back and now they are 4th....

Yes exactly lol. The covid period was what killed them, same as for us. They were doing no better with Nunn and Robinson.

[golden]

The reason why Nunn went undrafted is different from why Thomas and Davis went undrafted let's be honest though. And it's not talent related.

Davis was going to be drafted in the 2nd round, but he told those teams he wasn't going to sign with them. Same story with FVV... aka... Bet on Yourself. Both FVV and Davis would have been drafted, so it's not like Masai is bringing in an army of talent-less scrubs and giving Nurse only garbage to work with. Boucher would have also been drafted, except he had a really bad injury in his draft year. Stanley, Bembry and Ellenson are all former 1st round picks.

Nunn is an undersized shooting guard and those guys get passed over all the time in the draft or drafted late second round (e.g. Powell). I know Nunn had some off-court issues, but he wasn't exactly some kind of can't miss prospect coming out of college. Not really sure what to make of Thomas.... Nurse's hook is so quick with him, that it's really hard to figure out if he just needs a role and rhythm, or if he's just physically over-matched at the NBA level. He will either wash out of the league, or he will end up on a contender, hit a few daggers and become a folk hero.

[planetmars]

Miami Heat are starting 2 G-League guys (Robinson & Nunn), plus some random guy named KZ Okpala? They got hit by Covid bad early in the season and are now 4th overall & streaking with Bam out.

Has it become blasphemy to say that Nurse isn't as good as Spoelstra when it comes to developing his bench guys? We all love St. Nick, but he isn't perfect. There's a definite trend there with Nurse and the bench, and losing 3 starters has fully exposed that chink in the armor. Our bench guys don't even look like they know how to play the game of basketball at times. Some of that has to be coaching related.

I don't know if Nick is good at developing bench / young guys.. Casey might have been better. Having an established role as opposed to being given hats or role cards might be a detriment.

In the championship year he never had to rely on his depth. I mean OG was like our 9th man and hardly played due to his injuries/ailments. Last year he played his top 7 guys super hard.. and only had to go to his other guys due to injury and for the most part (other than Davis) were pretty bad. He thought McCaw was a top 8 / rotation guy.

[LJ2]

Okay, that was the shittiest came to watch in a long long time. Being down 3 starters is pretty tough to overcome. I’m just wondering what we are trying to achieve this year... being away from TO and now this stretch might be tough to overcome.

That's the million dollar question isn't it? After the slow start and before the roster got hit with COVID we topped out at .500, so pretty safe to expect we'd be competing with Miami and Boston for that 4th seed, if not for those setbacks. Managements actions or inactions would indicate that they are fine being at that spot (for now) and have no expectations beyond that this season.

So what are the options for improvement:
1. Trades, but we would need to restock desirable assets first. Also there is a high chance of player walking once contract is up.
2. Free agency, but this has always been a problem for Toronto due to location.
3. Internal improvement, but we are limited to the ceilings of our current roster

The only other option and the one I supported (currently on the fence) is the draft, but thinking more about it we would need to be pretty terrible to break into the top 5. We'd have to move Lowry plus one of Siakam or FVV (OG probably wouldn't impact things). Heck, that might be the case to break into the top 10. Raptors seem to be doing everything in their power to get there....Lowry has rested every injury this season which never happens, as has Siakam and OG,not to mention some of these line up's Nurse is putting out there are straight up funky. We'd have to be so bad that even if we got a legitimate talent in the draft we'd have to be rebuild the roster completely.

The current course of action might be our best option. Keep the talent we have, improve internally, hopefully hit a home run late in the lottery or wherever we land in the draft. Yeesh.

[KeonClark]

Davis was going to be drafted in the 2nd round, but he told those teams he wasn't going to sign with them. Same story with FVV... aka... Bet on Yourself. Both FVV and Davis would have been drafted, so it's not like Masai is bringing in an army of talent-less scrubs and giving Nurse only garbage to work with. Boucher would have also been drafted, except he had a really bad injury in his draft year. Stanley, Bembry and Ellenson are all former 1st round picks.

Nunn is an undersized shooting guard and those guys get passed over all the time in the draft or drafted late second round (e.g. Powell). I know Nunn had some off-court issues, but he wasn't exactly some kind of can't miss prospect coming out of college. Not really sure what to make of Thomas.... Nurse's hook is so quick with him, that it's really hard to figure out if he just needs a role and rhythm, or if he's just physically over-matched at the NBA level. He will either wash out of the league, or he will end up on a contender, hit a few daggers and become a folk hero.

Every single man on this roster has gotten multiple cracks at games with solid minutes. You don't always get 10, 20 tries in this league.. It's not the "try" league, its the "win" league. I mean the last 3 games just gave everybody a crack, and only Boucher, Lowry and Powell made any impact. Grab the brass ring when you have a chance, or you end up looking for another job pretty quick.