Game 38 Toronto Raptors vs Chicago Bulls - 9:00 PM EST Mar 14/21

[S.R.]

100% knew this would happen. Quick reminder the Raptors were finally rolling and up to the 4 seed before COVID hit. After 2 weeks of complete bullshit covid ball with half the team out, the hot takes are now:
- Are any of these players any good
- Is Nick Nurse actually any good
- Should we be tanking
- Is management actually any good

These current games mean nothing. Absolutely nothing. Less than summer league. It's all garbage, crumple it up in a ball and throw it out.

This season is 65% bullshit and the last 2 weeks for the Raptors have been 100% bullshit.

[G__Deane]

What do you mean by "appear absent"? They're in Tampa with the team. Masai is always doing interviews, Bobby did the pre game coach presser last week. Do you want to bring cameras in to their team management meetings?

That's be great, yes.
Where is Masai always doing interviews, when was the last one and was it posted here? Haven't seen any on sportsnet.ca or TSN or any of the 3 sports dedicated channels.
have and don't even often read RR except the forum and I don't follow any twitter.

What has Masai said about how he and Bobby might attempt to make changes this season, have they even commented on the last month. They can't help recent COVID issues but after Len was released?

[MixxAOR]

Davis was going to be drafted in the 2nd round, but he told those teams he wasn't going to sign with them. Same story with FVV... aka... Bet on Yourself. Both FVV and Davis would have been drafted, so it's not like Masai is bringing in an army of talent-less scrubs and giving Nurse only garbage to work with. Boucher would have also been drafted, except he had a really bad injury in his draft year. Stanley, Bembry and Ellenson are all former 1st round picks.

Nunn is an undersized shooting guard and those guys get passed over all the time in the draft or drafted late second round (e.g. Powell). I know Nunn had some off-court issues, but he wasn't exactly some kind of can't miss prospect coming out of college. Not really sure what to make of Thomas.... Nurse's hook is so quick with him, that it's really hard to figure out if he just needs a role and rhythm, or if he's just physically over-matched at the NBA level. He will either wash out of the league, or he will end up on a contender, hit a few daggers and become a folk hero.

So you think Stanley, Bembry, Ellenson, Thomas, Davis could be doing more if Nurse wasn't the coach?

Coach is always first one to go when people think it's not talent issue. Almost always ends up being talent issue though

[G__Deane]

100% knew this would happen. Quick reminder the Raptors were finally rolling and up to the 4 seed before COVID hit. After 2 weeks of complete bullshit covid ball with half the team out, the hot takes are now:
- Are any of these players any good
- Is Nick Nurse actually any good
- Should we be tanking
- Is management actually any good

These current games mean nothing. Absolutely nothing. Less than summer league. It's all garbage, crumple it up in a ball and throw it out.

This season is 65% bullshit and the last 2 weeks for the Raptors have been 100% bullshit.

That's actually all a fair comment

[KeonClark]

100% knew this would happen. Quick reminder the Raptors were finally rolling and up to the 4 seed before COVID hit. After 2 weeks of complete bullshit covid ball with half the team out, the hot takes are now:
- Are any of these players any good
- Is Nick Nurse actually any good
- Should we be tanking
- Is management actually any good

These current games mean nothing. Absolutely nothing. Less than summer league. It's all garbage, crumple it up in a ball and throw it out.

This season is 65% bullshit and the last 2 weeks for the Raptors have been 100% bullshit.

I mean, these games DID tell us we have very poor depth after the top 6 or 7 guys. It was a chance to give run to a handful of guys that did absolutely nothing win. Granted. most teams have these same issues once you get down to 9, 10,11 in the lineup, it's just the Raptors have been spoiled in the past where any group of 8 guys from the top 15 could seemingly step in and make any game competitive

[planetmars]

100% knew this would happen. Quick reminder the Raptors were finally rolling and up to the 4 seed before COVID hit. After 2 weeks of complete bullshit covid ball with half the team out, the hot takes are now:
- Are any of these players any good
- Is Nick Nurse actually any good
- Should we be tanking
- Is management actually any good

These current games mean nothing. Absolutely nothing. Less than summer league. It's all garbage, crumple it up in a ball and throw it out.

This season is 65% bullshit and the last 2 weeks for the Raptors have been 100% bullshit.

Yeah all good points. Looking at the schedule.. the next 20 or so games.. maybe 4 or 5 tough ones (Utah, Phoenix, Lakers, Brooklyn at the back end of that). Lot of easy wins if we get a full staff: Detroit, Cleveland, Houston, Denver, Portland, Detroit again, OKC, Golden State, Washington, Cleveland again, NY, Atlanta, San Antonio, Orlando, OKC).

Some good teams like Denver, Portland, Golden State, San Antonio, NY depending on what you think of them but a lot of lottery bound teams.

I think we could easily go streaking and pull back into the top 4-6 in the East.

More likely we make the playoffs then drop out, even if we trade Kyle for scraps (which we won't because Masai and Bobby don't lose trades).

[A.I]

So you think Stanley, Bembry, Ellenson, Thomas, Davis could be doing more if Nurse wasn't the coach?

Coach is always first one to go when people think it's not talent issue. Almost always ends up being talent issue though

Coaches are always the first scapegoat.

Most of the young guys we have are either undrafted (few players will make a good career out of it, most won't), have careers as bench players thus far like Stanley and Ellenson or are just young. What do people expect when they're playing against starters and playing more minutes? Some players will take more time to develop than others.

Out of all the young guys on our team playing right now, I'd say Davis is the only one with real potential, but of course he needs time to develop. Matt Thomas is 26, Stanley and Ellenson have been in the league for a while and have been nothing but mediocre bench players.

[Garbo]

Coaches are always the first scapegoat.

Most of the young guys we have are either undrafted (few players will make a good career out of it, most won't), have careers as bench players thus far like Stanley and Ellenson or are just young. What do people expect when they're playing against starters and playing more minutes? Some players will take more time to develop than others.

Out of all the young guys on our team playing right now, I'd say Davis is the only one with real potential, but of course he needs time to develop. Matt Thomas is 26, Stanley and Ellenson have been in the league for a while and have been nothing but mediocre bench players.

Exactly. This group is the kind of group that you put at the end of the bench and hope that you might find one guy who can surprise you with helpful spot minutes. That's who they are supposed to be. That's who they were signed to be.

The COVID decimation of our lineup combined with the double kick to the nuts of Baynes and Len forced us to try and pretend these guys are more than what they are. In a regular year, we'd be talking about Bembry's promising 5 minutes in garbage time and Yuta's play down in the G-league. I'm reading nothing into this asterisk season. Certainly not firing one of the best coaches in the NBA.

[golden]

Exactly. This group is the kind of group that you put at the end of the bench and hope that you might find one guy who can surprise you with helpful spot minutes. That's who they are supposed to be. That's who they were signed to be.

The COVID decimation of our lineup combined with the double kick to the nuts of Baynes and Len forced us to try and pretend these guys are more than what they are. In a regular year, we'd be talking about Bembry's promising 5 minutes in garbage time and Yuta's play down in the G-league. I'm reading nothing into this asterisk season. Certainly not firing one of the best coaches in the NBA.

Actually, you bring up a good point about Baynes and Len. Why are they performing exponentially worse here than any other team they've played for in the past? Baynes had, arguably, his best year last year. This year, he dropped off a cliff.... why? Len is now an advance stats DPOY candidate with the Wizards, but looked clueless here. Why?

[DanH]

I mean, these games DID tell us we have very poor depth after the top 6 or 7 guys. It was a chance to give run to a handful of guys that did absolutely nothing win. Granted. most teams have these same issues once you get down to 9, 10,11 in the lineup, it's just the Raptors have been spoiled in the past where any group of 8 guys from the top 15 could seemingly step in and make any game competitive

I don't know that that's true. Usually we would have 2 of our best 3 available in games like that. Rarely would we be looking at 3 of our top 4 being out. Never mind for such a long stretch. Heck, we had two nailbiters out of the 5 losses, one to a solid team in Boston, that would be viewed as huge overachievements for our much reduced squad if the coin landed the other way and they were one-offs like our shorthanded games have often been.

The main thing is just how many of our top guys are missing. Any team in the league would end up in a stretch like this in the same situation, except maybe the very best teams assuming their top 5 superstar is one of the healthy players.

[Yuri Gagarin]

Things started going wrong at the end of the bubble. Just look at the wins and losses. What changed? C position certainly but I think it has tondo with nick dropping the bench squad. He used to full on replace the entire starters with the second unit. Second unit played a lot together and became familiar with each other. They took pride in the opportunity given. Since then nurse shortened the bench and first guy in would be stanley. Now stanley and bembry. Bench used to hold the fort or increase the lead. They were energetic and it was contagious and carried over when starters came back in. Now its a mess. Bench dont know their rolls and when they’re given a chance its with some wack lineup. Familiarity is key.

[golden]

Things started going wrong at the end of the bubble. Just look at the wins and losses. What changed? C position certainly but I think it has tondo with nick dropping the bench squad. He used to full on replace the entire starters with the second unit. Second unit played a lot together and became familiar with each other. They took pride in the opportunity given. Since then nurse shortened the bench and first guy in would be stanley. Now stanley and bembry. Bench used to hold the fort or increase the lead. They were energetic and it was contagious and carried over when starters came back in. Now its a mess. Bench dont know their rolls and when they’re given a chance its with some wack lineup. Familiarity is key.

Speaking of roles & familiarity, there was a weird substitution pattern last night in the first quarter where TD & Stanley started the game, and then both got subbed out after only 2+ minutes for Watson & Bembry. At first it looked like a quick hook and a punishment, but then they both get subbed back in the same quarter with 5 minutes left. That was confusing, but pretty normal for how the bench is managed these days.

[Yuri Gagarin]

golden 😂 missed last night. Watched some dating show instead. Its that bad

[slaw]

Actually, you bring up a good point about Baynes and Len. Why are they performing exponentially worse here than any other team they've played for in the past? Baynes had, arguably, his best year last year. This year, he dropped off a cliff.... why? Len is now an advance stats DPOY candidate with the Wizards, but looked clueless here. Why?

No idea what Len's advanced defensive stats are but he's playing regular minutes one game out of 4 or 5 on a terrible team. Like the last 15 games he has 4 DNPs and has played double-digit minutes only 5 times. Reality is that Boucher is a much better player and took those minutes.

As for Baynes, I think I was misled by the aggregate numbers last year. The reality was that he was out a lot (only played 42 games) and basically exactly what he is right now after a terrific start. Other than the fact he was taking and making a lot more threes on year in PHX, there likely isn't any real difference from 2014 until now...

[The Claw Reborn]

Set aside that we are down 3 starters...

but this team has been atrocious defending the three all season

Raptors are the 7th worse team.

it seems every scrubs that are out there would circle their calendars when they play the Raptors because they can just station themselves in the corner, spot up and nail an open three then once in a while, these guys would have career nights vs. the Raptors

Nick Nurse defensive schemes favors defending the middle of the lane. That has been his Achilles.

the word is out against St. Nick