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The Great Kyle Lowry Trade Sweepstakes - Where Does Kyle Land

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  • #76
    Dr Hannibal Lecter wrote: View Post
    So how many games has Lowry played since trade deadline day..lol..I bet u if he was traded 2 maimi, he wouldn't miss any..and this is why I am baffled..why wouldn't u move him..unless it's cap reasons..u sign trade him for 2nd rd pick, just 2 have that cap..no team is gonna help raptors when it comes 2 cap..u could got so much more..trade dead line day..I don't know, it doesn't make sense..
    Keeping him is not different from trading him from a cap perspective because they wouldn't have accepted much 2021 salary in return, would mostly be expirings. Of course unless he re-signs. Which is the obvious reason they kept him, because there is a chance (not 0, not 100) that he might stay, and the value potentially returning was not high enough to offset that probability. It was never really about winning this season, they made that obvious with their lack of a C move.
    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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    • #77
      DanH wrote: View Post

      Keeping him is not different from trading him from a cap perspective because they wouldn't have accepted much 2021 salary in return, would mostly be expirings. Of course unless he re-signs. Which is the obvious reason they kept him, because there is a chance (not 0, not 100) that he might stay, and the value potentially returning was not high enough to offset that probability. It was never really about winning this season, they made that obvious with their lack of a C move.
      Bringing back Lowry would be admitting that they are OK being a middling playoff/treadmill team, valuing short term gate over a long term championship shot. Time to turn the page and it's too bad they couldn't find/accept a reasonable return for him a few weeks ago.

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      • #78
        G__Deane wrote: View Post

        Bringing back Lowry would be admitting that they are OK being a middling playoff/treadmill team, valuing short term gate over a long term championship shot. Time to turn the page and it's too bad they couldn't find/accept a reasonable return for him a few weeks ago.
        Interesting perspective. Or! Bringing back Lowry makes them stay good, and they find another way to make the leap besides dropping Lowry to add via FA.

        They have loads of flexibility and I suspect all their contracts will remain very tradable even Lowry's. So they aren't really locking themselves into anything no matter what happens this summer.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • #79
          DanH wrote: View Post

          Interesting perspective. Or! Bringing back Lowry makes them stay good, and they find another way to make the leap besides dropping Lowry to add via FA.

          They have loads of flexibility and I suspect all their contracts will remain very tradable even Lowry's. So they aren't really locking themselves into anything no matter what happens this summer.
          Moving on from Lowry doesn't mean the opposite of course, but I also doubt they "stay good" with him; they're not good with him now. And bringing him back with some FA centre doesn't either. Just time to move on before he's eventually booed in decline, even in Toronto.

          Hindsight now and we're left to believe a good enough deal was never presented (as opposed to Masai over valuing him) but an expiring vet contract to let go, a younger rotation player (think GT Jr-ish) and a draft pick would have been the play imo.

          We half azzed the rebuild so far.

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          • #80
            They are def preparing for lowry leaving. They will not be caught with their pants down if he decides to sign elsewhere, which I absolutely think he will. I suppose there is a possibility he resigns here, but I think if thats the case he will be shopped before the deadline again next year. I think if the team were serious about competing this season and retaining lowry for the future, they would have been more aggressive in getting a center and may have been willing to ride out the season with powell.

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            • #81
              G__Deane wrote: View Post

              Moving on from Lowry doesn't mean the opposite of course, but I also doubt they "stay good" with him; they're not good with him now. And bringing him back with some FA centre doesn't either. Just time to move on before he's eventually booed in decline, even in Toronto.

              Hindsight now and we're left to believe a good enough deal was never presented (as opposed to Masai over valuing him) but an expiring vet contract to let go, a younger rotation player (think GT Jr-ish) and a draft pick would have been the play imo.

              We half azzed the rebuild so far.
              Of course they are good now. They've had a nightmare season. That doesn't mean they are not good. It means they've had a nightmare season.

              You want to really rebuild, you trade Pascal and Fred. They absolutely won't be doing that because they absolutely are not rebuilding. They are taking a one year dip and certainly plan to be very good next year, whether they keep Lowry or not.
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • #82
                DanH wrote: View Post

                Of course they are good now. They've had a nightmare season. That doesn't mean they are not good. It means they've had a nightmare season.

                You want to really rebuild, you trade Pascal and Fred. They absolutely won't be doing that because they absolutely are not rebuilding. They are taking a one year dip and certainly plan to be very good next year, whether they keep Lowry or not.
                Yeah, having key guys 26-28 was too ignored leading up to the deadline. This is not a team looking to suck for 3-4 years after unloading big contracts. They're trying to pivot on the fly, Fred and Siakam will be 30 before you know it.

                In hindsight, Masai evidently liked his options he has with Lowry moving forward vs the offers he received for him. Whether that turns out to be the right choice or not, we'll see.
                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                • #83
                  We'll be good again next season but it sounds like there is no way to keep the core 3 of Siakam, FVV and OG AND add another max player while filling out the rest of the roster. Gotta temper expectations for next season as it doesn't look like we will be ready to contend quite yet.

                  That leads me to believe Boucher is probably not a part of this teams future. We need to surround the core with players on rookie or minimumish type deals to make room for another max player. They gotta sign Trent to a good value contract and hope he outplay it.

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                  • #84
                    LJ2 wrote: View Post
                    We'll be good again next season but it sounds like there is no way to keep the core 3 of Siakam, FVV and OG AND add another max player while filling out the rest of the roster. Gotta temper expectations for next season as it doesn't look like we will be ready to contend quite yet.

                    That leads me to believe Boucher is probably not a part of this teams future. We need to surround the core with players on rookie or minimumish type deals to make room for another max player. They gotta sign Trent to a good value contract and hope he outplay it.
                    The Nets have 3 superstars making above what our top player (who is likely leaving) makes and we worry about how to keep our core together....

                    Edit: And their big 3 has only played 7 games together this year and still lead the East
                    Last edited by G__Deane; Thu Apr 8, 2021, 09:15 AM.

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                    • #85
                      G__Deane wrote: View Post

                      The Nets have 3 superstars making above what our top player (who is likely leaving) makes and we worry about how to keep our core together....

                      Edit: And their big 3 has only played 7 games together this year and still lead the East
                      Right, but player salary and team payroll issues have as much to do with timing as anything else. You can be stuck with the 10th highest payroll or you can have one of the highest and all of a sudden sign UFA Kevin Durant. Or pick up buyout guys. Or trades or whatever.

                      Top 50 player salaries are hilarious. Khris Middleton is paid more than Giannis this year. Lebron James is paid less than John Wall. Steven Adams gets more than Jokic. Some deals are bad deals but a lot of that is just timing. Jokic will earn a lot more than Adams over his career, but not this year.

                      Starting to hear rumours about the next TV deal being huge? That could easily create another funky KD to the Warriors type situation or two. All about timing.

                      Timing also why the Raptors Giannis whiff was such a big deal. They had that one window to add a UFA and keep their core. That window is closed now, on to Plan B, C, D...
                      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                      • #86
                        G__Deane wrote: View Post

                        The Nets have 3 superstars making above what our top player (who is likely leaving) makes and we worry about how to keep our core together....

                        Edit: And their big 3 has only played 7 games together this year and still lead the East
                        Sure you can always look at what other teams have that we don't, but do you realize how absolutely awful the Nets have been for the last God knows how long? I would not give up what the Raps have been for the same duration for an opportunity to have their trio for 7 games (and counting). Fuck Brooklyn!

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                        • #87
                          Dr Hannibal Lecter wrote: View Post
                          So how many games has Lowry played since trade deadline day..lol..I bet u if he was traded 2 maimi, he wouldn't miss any..and this is why I am baffled..why wouldn't u move him..unless it's cap reasons..u sign trade him for 2nd rd pick, just 2 have that cap..no team is gonna help raptors when it comes 2 cap..u could got so much more..trade dead line day..I don't know, it doesn't make sense..
                          Most likely the offers were truly that bad. The best we got was probably Robinson and filler to match salaries. We don't need Robinson, we don't have minutes for Robinson, and Trent Jr. is better than Robinson.

                          Miami couldn't trade a 1st during the season but post-draft they can, so we could send them Lowry in a S&T and get back a 1st by waiting for the offseason.

                          There will also be a lot more potential suitors with 1st's available post-draft that are capped out and would need a S&T to get Lowry, so we just have a lot more options to get a better return in the offseason.

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                          • #88
                            Primer wrote: View Post

                            Most likely the offers were truly that bad. The best we got was probably Robinson and filler to match salaries. We don't need Robinson, we don't have minutes for Robinson, and Trent Jr. is better than Robinson.

                            Miami couldn't trade a 1st during the season but post-draft they can, so we could send them Lowry in a S&T and get back a 1st by waiting for the offseason.

                            There will also be a lot more potential suitors with 1st's available post-draft that are capped out and would need a S&T to get Lowry, so we just have a lot more options to get a better return in the offseason.
                            Lots of conjecture that Philly offered up an already drafted FRP in Maxey or Thybulle who are rookie scale deals and a pick.
                            Pick may have been an incredibly protected first or a 2nd..
                            Answer was still nyet.


                            "We can grow the economy not from the top down the way Mr. Harper wants to... but from the heart outwards". ---- Justin Trudeau 2015

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                            • #89
                              Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

                              Lots of conjecture that Philly offered up an already drafted FRP in Maxey or Thybulle who are rookie scale deals and a pick.
                              Pick may have been an incredibly protected first or a 2nd..
                              Answer was still nyet.

                              Yeah we'll never know what the actual offers were, but Lowry was the most coveted player at the trade deadline. Reports were the asking price was very high, and that Philly was pretty much at the touchdown line at some point. If true, that tells me the offer was likely Maxey and/or Thybulle + a FRP. That to me is a very fair return for our 35 yr old PG that doesn't fit our core age-wise, especially considering Philly is not only his hometown, but also a win-now team where he would fit like a glove and immediately contribute to winning (all of which being a nice send-off to the Groat Kyle)

                              We turned our nose at it though, so now he'll either:
                              A. Harness a lesser return due to him being older (possibly injured/banged up), and further removed from the championship as the starting PG of a lottery team.
                              B. Re-sign here for the 25M/yr he's looking for, thereby eating our cap, liming our chances to sign other players, and taking away development minutes from our future core.
                              C. Walk for nothing (despite being our best player), from a team that desperately needs multiple depth pieces, so we can sign Richaun Holmes.

                              All those 3 scenarios come from the added drawback of lowering our pick this year, as Lowry when healthy will drive wins for the rest of the regular season. To me none of those scenarios are better than Maxey/Thybulle + a FRP (if that's indeed what was offered, which granted, we'll never know). Hopefully we'll get some variation of scenario "A" where he still gets a good return on a SnT, and ends up on a winning situation on a team he wants.
                              Last edited by inthepaint; Yesterday, 06:31 PM.
                              2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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                              • #90
                                inthepaint wrote: View Post

                                Yeah we'll never know what the actual offers were, but Lowry was the most coveted player at the trade deadline. Reports were the asking price was very high, and that Philly was pretty much at the touchdown line at some point. If true, that tells me more the offer was likely Maxey and/or Thybulle + a FRP. That to me that is more than fair return for our 35 yr old PG that doesn't fit our core age-wise, especially considering Philly is not only his hometown, but also a win-now team where he would fit like a glove and immediately contribute to winning (all of which being a nice send-off to the Groat Kyle)

                                We turned our nose at it though, so now he'll either:
                                A. Harness a lesser return due to him being older (possibly injured/banged up), and further removed from the championship as the starting PG of a lottery team.
                                B. Re-sign here for the 25M/yr he's looking for, thereby eating our cap, liming our chances to sign other players, and taking away development minutes from our future core.
                                C. Walk for nothing (despite being the best player on the team), so we can sign Richaun Holmes.

                                All those 3 scenarios come from the added drawback of lowering our pick this year, as Lowry when healthy will drive wins for the rest of the regular season. To me none of those scenarios are better than Maxey/Thybulle + a FRP (if that's indeed what was offered, which granted, we'll never know). Hopefully we'll get some variation of scenario "A" where he still gets a good return on a SnT, and ends up on a winning situation on a team he wants.
                                I suspect that if both of Maxey and Thybulle were offered plus a pick, the deal would have been done. More likely it was two of the three offered, with Philly balking at all three.
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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