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The Great Kyle Lowry Trade Sweepstakes - Where Does Kyle Land

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  • #91
    inthepaint wrote: View Post

    Yeah we'll never know what the actual offers were, but Lowry was the most coveted player at the trade deadline. Reports were the asking price was very high, and that Philly was pretty much at the touchdown line at some point. If true, that tells me the offer was likely Maxey and/or Thybulle + a FRP. That to me is a very fair return for our 35 yr old PG that doesn't fit our core age-wise, especially considering Philly is not only his hometown, but also a win-now team where he would fit like a glove and immediately contribute to winning (all of which being a nice send-off to the Groat Kyle)

    We turned our nose at it though, so now he'll either:
    A. Harness a lesser return due to him being older (possibly injured/banged up), and further removed from the championship as the starting PG of a lottery team.
    B. Re-sign here for the 25M/yr he's looking for, thereby eating our cap, liming our chances to sign other players, and taking away development minutes from our future core.
    C. Walk for nothing (despite being our best player), from a team that desperately needs multiple depth pieces, so we can sign Richaun Holmes.

    All those 3 scenarios come from the added drawback of lowering our pick this year, as Lowry when healthy will drive wins for the rest of the regular season. To me none of those scenarios are better than Maxey/Thybulle + a FRP (if that's indeed what was offered, which granted, we'll never know). Hopefully we'll get some variation of scenario "A" where he still gets a good return on a SnT, and ends up on a winning situation on a team he wants.
    Quite simply, Masai gambled because he had at least two potential bidders for Kyle and both were in win now mode. He felt pretty sure that one or both would cave in the last hour but both the Heat and Sixers (at least) didn't figure Lowry was a sure thing to get them to the finals and they're probably right. Masai's bluff got called and he was only holding a pair .... and it will be just like Morey to now sign Kyle for nothing and dbl screw us.

    And no, we'll never know for sure what was offered.

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    • #92
      G__Deane wrote: View Post

      Quite simply, Masai gambled because he had at least two potential bidders for Kyle and both were in win now mode. He felt pretty sure that one or both would cave in the last hour but both the Heat and Sixers (at least) didn't figure Lowry was a sure thing to get them to the finals and they're probably right. Masai's bluff got called and he was only holding a pair .... and it will be just like Morey to now sign Kyle for nothing and dbl screw us.

      And no, we'll never know for sure what was offered.
      Sure, if Sixers had cap space...That is why Masai didn't bother going for the trades if he didn't feel it was what he wanted. Most contenders don't have cap space to sign Kyle. Heat will if they don't re-sign Oladipo, I'd be surprised if they didn't.

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      • #93
        I really don't understand the thinking that Masai turned down good deals. We can see exactly what the Heat and Philly ended up trading to get their mid season additions and neither were very good returns.

        OKC got Tony Bradley, Austin Rivers, and 2 future 2nd round picks. Is this a return you would be happy with for Lowry?

        The Rockets got Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk and 2022 first-round swap rights. Again, is this a return you would have been happy with for Lowry?

        We don't have to speculate here, this is what was actually traded by the two teams rumored to be interested in Lowry. I find it far more likely this is very close to what was offered than we turned down 1st round picks.

        I'd rather let Lowry walk and sign Holmes with the cap space than get either of these packages. We also have the potential for a S&T bringing us back something far more useful than the above packages.

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        • #94
          Primer wrote: View Post
          I really don't understand the thinking that Masai turned down good deals. We can see exactly what the Heat and Philly ended up trading to get their mid season additions and neither were very good returns.

          OKC got Tony Bradley, Austin Rivers, and 2 future 2nd round picks. Is this a return you would be happy with for Lowry?

          The Rockets got Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk and 2022 first-round swap rights. Again, is this a return you would have been happy with for Lowry?

          We don't have to speculate here, this is what was actually traded by the two teams rumored to be interested in Lowry. I find it far more likely this is very close to what was offered than we turned down 1st round picks.

          I'd rather let Lowry walk and sign Holmes with the cap space than get either of these packages. We also have the potential for a S&T bringing us back something far more useful than the above packages.
          Maybe, but c'mon, George Hill and Dipo aren't Kyle Lowry, at least that what everyone says when they're defending him.
          He was either the greatest post season PG available who would immediately vault your team to Finals contention or he was an aging PG who guaranteed nothing but an expiring expense, suitable for a gamble with limited assets going the other way.

          It's reasonable to assume the Raps were offered a bit more than was given for Hill and Oladipo but Masai/Bobby valued Lowry still higher....maybe over valued him.

          We know one thing for sure; Masai would have preferred to have traded him.

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          • #95
            G__Deane wrote: View Post

            Maybe, but c'mon, George Hill and Dipo aren't Kyle Lowry, at least that what everyone says when they're defending him.
            He was either the greatest post season PG available who would immediately vault your team to Finals contention or he was an aging PG who guaranteed nothing but an expiring expense, suitable for a gamble with limited assets going the other way.

            It's reasonable to assume the Raps were offered a bit more than was given for Hill and Oladipo but Masai/Bobby valued Lowry still higher....maybe over valued him.

            We know one thing for sure; Masai would have preferred to have traded him.
            Precisely. Lowry is a better player than Oladipo and George Hill and much more valuable on a win-now now team, as a PG that won a title two years ago when playing with another high-end wing. Therefore the offers would have been higher, and in my book a likely win-win, because Lowry would help their team more as a win-now leader on a win-now team (and the incoming package would help us more as a rebuilding team lacking depth due to several other key players having left post-championship).

            There's no point in debating much though, because we don't know the exact package offered. It was most likely a decent package in a vacuum, but the emotions and subjective value placed on Lowry due to his history with the team made it difficult to pull the trigger, and inflated the price.
            2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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            • #96
              Lowry is indeed way better but he also has a history of the league as a whole dramatically undervaluing him whenever he has hit FA or been available in trade.
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • #97
                One thing I noticed last game, Flynn went running over to Lowry at one point and it was clear lowry was teaching him. I think maybe we put very little value to this, but maybe its worth a lot more than we are saying.

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                • #98
                  Dvdvideo wrote: View Post
                  One thing I noticed last game, Flynn went running over to Lowry at one point and it was clear lowry was teaching him. I think maybe we put very little value to this, but maybe its worth a lot more than we are saying.
                  What's that cost though? Is that worth 25m a year? I don't discredit it at all, however it would be a steep price to pay for a player coach.

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                  • #99
                    Shredder wrote: View Post

                    What's that cost though? Is that worth 25m a year? I don't discredit it at all, however it would be a steep price to pay for a player coach.
                    Two playoff contenders and the defending champions were the ones seeking to trade for him at the deadline. Provided he's healthy, I doubt his trade value falls off a cliff next season.

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                    • G__Deane wrote: View Post

                      Maybe, but c'mon, George Hill and Dipo aren't Kyle Lowry, at least that what everyone says when they're defending him.
                      He was either the greatest post season PG available who would immediately vault your team to Finals contention or he was an aging PG who guaranteed nothing but an expiring expense, suitable for a gamble with limited assets going the other way.

                      It's reasonable to assume the Raps were offered a bit more than was given for Hill and Oladipo but Masai/Bobby valued Lowry still higher....maybe over valued him.

                      We know one thing for sure; Masai would have preferred to have traded him.
                      A bit more than those returns is still shit and better to just let Lowry walk or potential S&T. The two future second round picks were the only decent asset in either of those trades.

                      Miami didn't have a 1st to trade and Philly didn't wanna include any, so it came down to players offered and I don't think we missed out by not getting Duncan Robinson or Maxey when we have better fits already on the team.

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                      • I was wondering, what's the point for Kyle, individually, not emotionnally/besides helping the Raptors, to agree to a sign and trade?

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                        • TomAmnot wrote: View Post
                          I was wondering, what's the point for Kyle, individually, not emotionnally/besides helping the Raptors, to agree to a sign and trade?
                          A lot of contenders don't have cap space to sign him from what I know
                          Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                          • MixxAOR wrote: View Post

                            A lot of contenders don't have cap space to sign him from what I know
                            That's right. A sign and trade allows the team of his choosing to clear space easier to bring him in. A straight signing limits it to teams with cap space, and those teams are usually bad.

                            but I caution you're not gonna get much in a sign and trade. Teams know they have Raptors over a barrel and if the raptors ask too much they can look for other avenues to clear cap space
                            It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                            • Oh, true!! Thanks guys! Maybe get Josh Hart and Bledsoe?
                              Last edited by TomAmnot; Thu Apr 15, 2021, 05:11 PM.

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                              • KeonClark wrote: View Post

                                That's right. A sign and trade allows the team of his choosing to clear space easier to bring him in. A straight signing limits it to teams with cap space, and those teams are usually bad.

                                but I caution you're not gonna get much in a sign and trade. Teams know they have Raptors over a barrel and if the raptors ask too much they can look for other avenues to clear cap space
                                Weren't Durrant and Hayward sign and trades? What did the trading teams get in those returns? And yes Lowry at his age wouldn't get as much.

                                Or maybe Lowry values another big contract over rings?

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