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Everything Gary Trent Jr.

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  • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
    Trent's stats at age 22 are similar to Beal at that age. Yes I'm unreasonable
    I'm thinking his ceiling is more CJ McCollum than Beal and that's not a bad thing at all.

    Beal does not play defense and tends to hog the ball which didn't exactly translate to a whole lot of success in the playoffs with him, Wall and Otto Porter Jr at their peaks.

    Comment


    • planetmars wrote: View Post

      Him leaving is always a possibility.

      I'm more worried that his next contract will be significantly more than what he got this past summer. And he got a "bet on yourself contract" since he's so young. So even though he had a similar AAV to Norm. Norm was for 5 years, no options. After 2 years, if Trent opts out, his next contract will likely have a higher AAV than Norm's does now.

      Trent could be better than Norm.. and some could agree that he is already since he's a better defender. Plus he's a lot younger. But Trent did us no favours with his deal at all. It's a big deal and will likely get even bigger in 2 years, assuming we can keep him.

      I just don't like player options as you lose a lot of flexibility. But I guess that's what you have to do if you have a team in Canada.
      Curious, what flexibility do they lose with the player option?

      Like, the option makes it so they are stuck without control, but if that player option was either a guaranteed year or not there at all, they would also have no control.

      Like, in the scenario where Trent kills it for two years and opts out to sign a new deal (the scenario people seem concerned about), how is that different from a 2 year bet on yourself contract like Fred signed, with no option year? Even in the scenario where they look to trade him, that player option doesn't stop that from happening, and any team trading for him in that scenario is going to assume he's opting out anyway.

      Ultimately the only reason to get upset about player options is if you think the alternative was a contract where that player is guaranteed (or a team option) - but that is rarely a possibility without a significantly different AAV. Like, is Trent's contract better at $22M a pop for the next three years instead of $16.5 for two? Hey, maybe, but maybe he wouldn't want that anyway, he's probably angling for max money in two years. More likely the alternative option was a 2 year deal with no option year, at something like 20M AAV, and the player option insurance bought us a slightly lower AAV for the two actual years of the contract (which helps with tax and rounding out the roster, some perceived value in trade if they move him, etc). Or him taking that cheap QO and walking a year later.

      Now, if they let the market decide, could his deal be cheaper, or longer? Maybe. Heck, they could probably have bent FVV over a barrel when no one bit on his first free agency. But they don't take that approach with their players. And maybe his deal is pretty comparable to what they have now anyway, with the same implications for two years from now (re: keeping or trading him), except there's less good will for the free agency that follows.
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

      Comment


      • LJ2 wrote: View Post

        To me Trent projects to be the caliber of player as FVV and Siakam in a couple years, developing into something along the lines of an All Star or a fringe All Star. You can only have so many of those guys on your roster and remember OG is heading in that direction as well. Maybe Barnes develops continues to develop faster than initially anticipated? At some point you have to convert those quarters into dollars so maybe Masai looks at trading Gary or trading Siakam/FVV to clear some cap space to pay Gary. There will be options.
        This is the brilliance of the Masai team building model. Fred and Pascal are in similar situations to Demar and Kyle pre-Kawhi deal. Internal growth had turned both Kyle/DD into coveted assets. And already coming up behind those two were Pascal, OG, Fred, etc. That’s how we got Kawhi - they had an asset to trade, and still enough talent left to compete. It should theoretically be the same with this iteration: grow your talent internally and be ready to strike if a destiny-changing player becomes available. Either Fred or Pascal could easily, right now, be the centrepiece of a big deal. Going forward, maybe in 2 years you jettison one of them to grab KAT or someone like that who mgmt thinks can take the rest of the roster over the top.

        of course, it all only works if the talent evaluation is solid. Which thankfully it is.

        Comment


        • golden wrote: View Post

          But Gary isn't giving you what Norm does. It's not even close when you look at efficiency stats.


          On a quick glance at these stats something is off. Trent is only 22 and is not snagging 3.1 steals per game. Not sure what other errors are there. (I see now that it's per 100, 3.1 is good.)

          Trent is a different type of scorer than Norm. Norm was great at spotting up and slashing. Trent can spot up and create his own 3 ball, he also has the midrange pull ups when he gets run off the line. He does need to improve his finishing at the rim. The way the NBA has gone Trent's developing ability to create his own shot may prove to be valuable down the road...something Norm has never developed.
          Twitter @WJ_FINDLAY

          Comment


          • golden wrote: View Post

            But Gary isn't giving you what Norm does. It's not even close when you look at efficiency stats.


            I wonder what Gary's numbers will look like with another 5 years of growth. Basically when you compare Norm to Gary you are comparing a player in the early part of his prime years to a 22 year old guy. Lots of room to grow for Trent Jr. And if he improves at even half the rate that we have see so far, he will fly past Norm's numbers in no time.

            Comment


            • At age 23…

              per 36

              Code:
                                                                                                    
              Rk          Player  Season Age  G GS   MP  FG%  3P%  2P%  FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PTS
              1    Norman Powell 2016-17  23 76 18 1368 .449 .324 .514 .792 4.4 2.2 1.4 0.4 1.8 16.7
              2       Gary Trent 2021-22  23 19 18  656 .435 .380 .486 .921 3.3 1.8 2.1 0.4 1.0 18.3
              Provided by Stathead.com: View Stathead Tool Used
              Generated 11/26/2021.


              per 100 possessions

              Code:
                                                                                                      
              Player           Season Age  G GS   MP  FG%  3P%  2P%  FT% TRB AST STL BLK  PTS ORtg DRtg
              Norman Powell   2016-17  23 76 18 1368 .449 .324 .514 .792 6.3 3.0 1.9 0.5 23.6  109  109
              Gary Trent      2021-22  23 19 18  656 .435 .380 .486 .921 4.6 2.4 3.0 0.5 25.4  116  111
              Provided by Stathead.com: View Stathead Tool Used
              Generated 11/26/2021.


              advanced

              Code:
                                                                                                            
              Player           Season Age  G   MP  PER  TS% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG%  WS WS/48  BPM VORP
              Norman Powell   2016-17  23 76 1368 14.0 .552  7.0  9.3  1.9  0.9 10.8 21.1 2.8  .097 -0.5  0.5
              Gary Trent      2021-22  23 19  656 16.3 .556  5.1  7.5  3.0  1.1  6.0 20.7 1.7  .125  0.9  0.5
              Provided by Stathead.com: View Stathead Tool Used
              Generated 11/26/2021.

              You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

              When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


              Comment


              • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post
                At age 23…

                per 36

                Code:
                Rk Player Season Age G GS MP FG% 3P% 2P% FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PTS
                1 Norman Powell 2016-17 23 76 18 1368 .449 .324 .514 .792 4.4 2.2 1.4 0.4 1.8 16.7
                2 Gary Trent 2021-22 23 19 18 656 .435 .380 .486 .921 3.3 1.8 2.1 0.4 1.0 18.3
                Provided by Stathead.com: View Stathead Tool Used
                Generated 11/26/2021.


                per 100 possessions

                Code:
                Player Season Age G GS MP FG% 3P% 2P% FT% TRB AST STL BLK PTS ORtg DRtg
                Norman Powell 2016-17 23 76 18 1368 .449 .324 .514 .792 6.3 3.0 1.9 0.5 23.6 109 109
                Gary Trent 2021-22 23 19 18 656 .435 .380 .486 .921 4.6 2.4 3.0 0.5 25.4 116 111
                Provided by Stathead.com: View Stathead Tool Used
                Generated 11/26/2021.


                advanced

                Code:
                Player Season Age G MP PER TS% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% WS WS/48 BPM VORP
                Norman Powell 2016-17 23 76 1368 14.0 .552 7.0 9.3 1.9 0.9 10.8 21.1 2.8 .097 -0.5 0.5
                Gary Trent 2021-22 23 19 656 16.3 .556 5.1 7.5 3.0 1.1 6.0 20.7 1.7 .125 0.9 0.5
                Provided by Stathead.com: View Stathead Tool Used
                Generated 11/26/2021.
                Add the per game stats as well. That shows how vastly ahead of schedule Trent is compared to Norm at the same age. Norm didn't start playing over 20 minutes per game until he was 26, which was also the first season he scored more than 9 points per game.

                At age 22 Trent was a starter averaging over 15 points per game. He's taken another leap this season already. Hard to imagine how good he will be at age 26.

                Comment


                • Primer wrote: View Post

                  Add the per game stats as well. That shows how vastly ahead of schedule Trent is compared to Norm at the same age. Norm didn't start playing over 20 minutes per game until he was 26, which was also the first season he scored more than 9 points per game.

                  At age 22 Trent was a starter averaging over 15 points per game. He's taken another leap this season already. Hard to imagine how good he will be at age 26.
                  I can only hope that same eye for talent is why they picked up Precious. The young core, the future of this team could all be fringe all star types in a few years when the team is ready to contend again.

                  Comment


                  • LJ2 wrote: View Post

                    I can only hope that same eye for talent is why they picked up Precious. The young core, the future of this team could all be fringe all star types in a few years when the team is ready to contend again.
                    Precious is intriguing. He has the tools and potential, just a little raw. Centers generally take longer to develop.

                    Comment


                    • Primer wrote: View Post

                      Add the per game stats as well. That shows how vastly ahead of schedule Trent is compared to Norm at the same age. Norm didn't start playing over 20 minutes per game until he was 26, which was also the first season he scored more than 9 points per game.

                      At age 22 Trent was a starter averaging over 15 points per game. He's taken another leap this season already. Hard to imagine how good he will be at age 26.
                      I have been a supporter of Norm when he was here, why I always defended him when he was the scapegoat of this forum for a long time. Derozan was the apple of the eye by the populous, cannot blame his loyalists….#he got us when Bosh left lol

                      Norm played behind the regular season phenom in his early years which I thought may have restricted his growth….Norm also had a shorter leash during his formative years under Casey. But his playoff performance in 2017 against the Bucks was his coming out party.

                      Fast forward, Norm’s game is either a straight line dunk or an open three.

                      GTJs sweet spots is his midrange and the 22 footer.

                      Both are high level defenders when it mattered most

                      At age 26…GTJ could be something else….why I always believed that you let them loose during a development year and successive formative years

                      Scottie will be a monster in 2-3 years

                      their only kryptonite like Norm will be a high possession chucker. #gotus getting the key
                      Last edited by The Claw Reborn; Fri Nov 26, 2021, 01:40 PM.
                      You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

                      When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


                      Comment


                      • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

                        I have been a supporter of Norm when he was here, why I always defended him when he was the scapegoat of this forum for a long time. Derozan was the apple of the eye by the populous, cannot blame his loyalists….#he got us when Bosh left lol

                        Norm played behind the regular season phenom in his early years which I thought may have restricted his growth….Norm also had a shorter leash during his formative years under Casey. But his playoff performance in 2017 against the Bucks was his coming out party.

                        Fast forward, Norm’s game is either a straight line dunk or an open three.

                        GTJs sweet spots is his midrange and the 22 footer.

                        Both are high level defenders when it mattered most

                        At age 26…GTJ could be something else….why I always believed that you let them loose during a development year and successive formative years

                        Scottie will be a monster in 2-3 years

                        their only kryptonite like Norm will be a high possession chucker. #gotus getting the key
                        Playing with a high possession chucker like DeMar is what's set up Norm for success in his current situation playing with Dame.

                        Comment


                        • Gary Trent Jr in his last 7 games: 21.7/3.1/2.3 on .466/.435/1.000 shooting (.615 TS%)
                          Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

                          Comment


                          • LJ2 wrote: View Post

                            Playing with a high possession chucker like DeMar is what's set up Norm for success in his current situation playing with Dame.
                            Norm’s first 3 years were tough for him.

                            I am just glad that he reached a level that got us a Trent Jr. return of investment at age 23.
                            You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

                            When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


                            Comment


                            • A.I wrote: View Post

                              Precious is intriguing. He has the tools and potential, just a little raw. Centers generally take longer to develop.
                              Especially African and European centers, they usually peak much later. Partly because they haven't been groomed in the American version of ball since they were 9 years old.
                              It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

                              Comment


                              • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

                                I have been a supporter of Norm when he was here, why I always defended him when he was the scapegoat of this forum for a long time. Derozan was the apple of the eye by the populous, cannot blame his loyalists….#he got us when Bosh left lol

                                Norm played behind the regular season phenom in his early years which I thought may have restricted his growth….Norm also had a shorter leash during his formative years under Casey. But his playoff performance in 2017 against the Bucks was his coming out party.

                                Fast forward, Norm’s game is either a straight line dunk or an open three.

                                GTJs sweet spots is his midrange and the 22 footer.

                                Both are high level defenders when it mattered most

                                At age 26…GTJ could be something else….why I always believed that you let them loose during a development year and successive formative years

                                Scottie will be a monster in 2-3 years

                                their only kryptonite like Norm will be a high possession chucker. #gotus getting the key
                                Norm probably would have developed a lot faster under Nurse than Casey. Nurse believes in a very long leash. Everything is forward looking. Casey always has tunnel vision on the game at hand.

                                Comment

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