Everything Gary Trent Jr.

[KeonClark]

Should trade him by offseason IMO. He's a professional scorer and not much else. He's most valuable to a team that needs a 3rd option scorer. A team like the Knicks would likely find him a great upgrade on Evan Fournier for example. Here in Toronto he's already 4th option and I'm sure most would prefer Scottie eventually made him 5th option.

Now, if he was a swiss army knife that'd be one thing, but he's a professional scorer who can hold his own on D, very much like Norm Powell. Powell was willing to get jerked around in his role and probably underpaid for a number of years to be a 6th man/next man up replacement starter. I'm not sure GTJ would be as interested in stalling his future career earnings.

[inthepaint]

Yeah I would too but GTJ is a good shooter and there is going to be a bidding war that would drive up his price considerably. Not to mention FVV will also be a free agent and judging his trajectory, will at that point commend something like max or close to max money so that is something to consider.

All true, but on the other hand the higher the cost, the fewer the teams willing and/or with cap space to put an offer.

The other thing players/agents consider is role. Young players with potential like Trent want to be featured and have consistent minutes on winning teams. He has that here but not every team can offer that. Contenders are usually tight for cap with not a lot of room/open minutes in the rotation; and the ones that have lots of cap space/minutes are typically bad teams, so that takes away some of the competition too.

[bertarapsfan]

I would be weary to give up on trent.. I think the mistake was a 2 year with a player option we kind of handcuffed ourselves and might be forced to use him as a trade chip.. Dude can score and play mean defense on quick guards is only 23, played at Duke meaning for all his life he has been one of the most talented kids in his group. He hasnt been given a chance to have a consistent role and when he gets it he shines.

He is also the only guy on the roster who can get to his spots and get a good look off whenever he wants. I think if Nick trusted him to take those late game shots he could have turned 2-3 losses into wins already.. Someone has to give the dude a chance to prove he can hit the big shot because by everything he proved so far he is that dude on the roster.

He's the type of dude who could just keep improving and end up as a borderline all star. If we were to move him we will be thinking damm i wished we had a solid S.G scorer who was a great 3 point shooter and defend.

[bertarapsfan]

What AAV would you have paid to get more years?

If we could have backloaded at like 23 mil a year in years 3 and 4 i would think that is value. Caps are rising and that could very well be like the 16 he is making this year
S.G making between 16-23 this year: Fournier, Joe Harris, Levert, Bogdan Bogdanovic, Eric Gordon, Gary Harris, Zach Lavine, Tim hardaway, Buddy Hield..

He is better then all those guys beside Lavine. Finding a replacement for what he does for cheaper is going to be near impossible in 2 years

[KeonClark]

I would be weary to give up on trent.. I think the mistake was a 2 year with a player option we kind of handcuffed ourselves and might be forced to use him as a trade chip.. Dude can score and play mean defense on quick guards is only 23, played at Duke meaning for all his life he has been one of the most talented kids in his group. He hasnt been given a chance to have a consistent role and when he gets it he shines.

He is also the only guy on the roster who can get to his spots and get a good look off whenever he wants. I think if Nick trusted him to take those late game shots he could have turned 2-3 losses into wins already.. Someone has to give the dude a chance to prove he can hit the big shot because by everything he proved so far he is that dude on the roster.

He's the type of dude who could just keep improving and end up as a borderline all star. If we were to move him we will be thinking damm i wished we had a solid S.G scorer who was a great 3 point shooter and defend.

Has anyone considered what his open market value really is? His comparable is guys like: Powell (17 million per), Terry Rozier (24 mil) Reggie Jackson (7 mil) Kelly Oubre (13 mil). Another couple young guys RFA the same year as he will exercise his option are Jordan Poole and Tyler Herro. Will be interesting to see the market for a professional scorer, yes he has a 2 way game but it's not like his defense is ELITE. Maybe we can keep him for not much more than what he;s getting now

[slaw]

Should trade him by offseason IMO. He's a professional scorer and not much else. He's most valuable to a team that needs a 3rd option scorer. A team like the Knicks would likely find him a great upgrade on Evan Fournier for example. Here in Toronto he's already 4th option and I'm sure most would prefer Scottie eventually made him 5th option.

Now, if he was a swiss army knife that'd be one thing, but he's a professional scorer who can hold his own on D, very much like Norm Powell. Powell was willing to get jerked around in his role and probably underpaid for a number of years to be a 6th man/next man up replacement starter. I'm not sure GTJ would be as interested in stalling his future career earnings.

This team badly needs a professional scorer and third scoring option. OG is not a third option. Maybe eventually Fred becomes the third option behind Barnes and Pascal but you would still need to add firepower. A guy like Trent for example.

[bertarapsfan]

Has anyone considered what his open market value really is? His comparable is guys like: Powell (17 million per), Terry Rozier (24 mil) Reggie Jackson (7 mil) Kelly Oubre (13 mil). Another couple young guys RFA the same year as he will exercise his option are Jordan Poole and Tyler Herro. Will be interesting to see the market for a professional scorer, yes he has a 2 way game but it's not like his defense is ELITE. Maybe we can keep him for not much more than what he;s getting now

Posted his comparable salarys above... This he is the 2nd best dude in that range and soon to be the best after Lavine gets a huge pay bump

[DanH]

If we could have backloaded at like 23 mil a year in years 3 and 4 i would think that is value. Caps are rising and that could very well be like the 16 he is making this year
S.G making between 16-23 this year: Fournier, Joe Harris, Levert, Bogdan Bogdanovic, Eric Gordon, Gary Harris, Zach Lavine, Tim hardaway, Buddy Hield..

He is better then all those guys beside Lavine. Finding a replacement for what he does for cheaper is going to be near impossible in 2 years

Sure!

Are we at all confident that Trent would accept such a deal? I would be shocked. The point of the short deal is to hit FA as quickly as possible for a chance at a max deal. If you want to buy extra years, the price on younger guys tends to climb dramatically. That's why Fred came so cheap on his previous deal.

I suspect it was something like the deal he has now, versus a longer term deal at 25M+ (meaning the latter years would be in the high 20's at least), maybe more. He and his agent know his value as well as we do, and what quality of player gets a deal like that. That's not exactly a murderer's row you listed there.

[golden]

What AAV would you have paid to get more years?

What AAV was Trent being offered by other teams? We could've matched market.

[DanH]

What AAV was Trent being offered by other teams? We could've matched market.

How? How do you make him sign a longer term deal? What mechanism are you utilizing?

[TrueTorontoFan]

How? How do you make him sign a longer term deal? What mechanism are you utilizing?

the wrench method

[slaw]

Posted his comparable salarys above... This he is the 2nd best dude in that range and soon to be the best after Lavine gets a huge pay bump

Well, whatever it is, bump it up to stay in Toronto. I don't the 2-year contract was the front office....

[golden]

How? How do you make him sign a longer term deal? What mechanism are you utilizing?

Your assumption was that we could have got him to sign a longer term deal at higher AAV, which is logical. At some point, if you offer him the max for 5 years, then he probably signs. So, just piggybacking on to your logic, if Trent is open to a longer term deal at higher AAV (your theory), then presumably another team would have offered that and we could match.

Bigger question is: was there even a robust market for GTJ last off-season? Maybe that's why he took a short-term deal, i.e., no lucrative suitors. Perhaps we were just bidding against ourselves and/or trying to be ultra agent-friendly.

[DanH]

Your assumption was that we could have got him to sign a longer term deal at higher AAV, which is logical. At some point, if you offer him the max for 5 years, then he probably signs. So, just piggybacking on to your logic, if Trent is open to a longer term deal at higher AAV (your theory), then presumably another team would have offered that and we could match.

Bigger question is: was there even a robust market for GTJ last off-season? Maybe that's why he took a short-term deal, i.e., no lucrative suitors. Perhaps we were just bidding against ourselves and/or trying to be ultra agent-friendly.

Would another team offer that last summer? I don't know. I suspect if they had, he would have signed longer term. He is betting on his market improving as he gets a bigger role, he had like a quarter season out from under Dame's shadow, he smartly figured he'd put up numbers playing here.

Right, just like FVV, there were no suitors offering what he wanted longer term. That's my whole point - you can't just make a player take a longer term deal. So they got him for lower AAV than he wanted with term and gave him the short term he wanted if he didn't get that AAV.

You can only match market if he signs the contract. He clearly didn't have a long term contract he wanted to sign, so how were the Raptors supposed to make that happen? You come to an agreement on a price on a short term deal, you can't force term on a guy.

The alternative is you stand firm and say you'll only pay him if he signs for like 4 years, and then he signs his QO, in which case he's super cheap this year (yay!) and an UFA this coming summer (not yay!).

[golden]

Would another team offer that last summer? I don't know. I suspect if they had, he would have signed longer term. He is betting on his market improving as he gets a bigger role, he had like a quarter season out from under Dame's shadow, he smartly figured he'd put up numbers playing here.

Right, just like FVV, there were no suitors offering what he wanted longer term. That's my whole point - you can't just make a player take a longer term deal. So they got him for lower AAV than he wanted with term and gave him the short term he wanted if he didn't get that AAV.

You can only match market if he signs the contract. He clearly didn't have a long term contract he wanted to sign, so how were the Raptors supposed to make that happen? You come to an agreement on a price on a short term deal, you can't force term on a guy.

The alternative is you stand firm and say you'll only pay him if he signs for like 4 years, and then he signs his QO, in which case he's super cheap this year (yay!) and an UFA this coming summer (not yay!).

Again, I’m just riffing off your own assumption: “what higher AAV would you pay to get longer term?” You’re the one that brought up that possibility… now you’re strangely backpedaling. Move on….