Everything Gary Trent Jr.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Yeah, I mean they traded for him specifically to retain his rights and re-sign him. So I would be kind of shocked if they wouldn't have paid a slightly higher amount to get term. Masai LOVES locking guys up to term, even guys he will end up trading away. Retaining talent is the name of the game for this front office. Now, locking a guy up to term at a huge AAV way beyond his immediately obvious market? Different story, and I suspect that was the option available for precisely the reason that it didn't happen.

It's not impossible. There's just absolutely no reason to believe that's the case, and every reason to believe the opposite. Not impossible, just not really worth considering as a likely scenario.

Perhaps Boddy is different with how he approaches contracts. I don't know if you remember but Bobby was in the signing photo not Masai for GTJ. Not sure if it makes a big difference... but it may make a small difference in terms of approach

[TrueTorontoFan]

I was upset by the Gary signing as well.. but learned to live with it. Remember Gary was an RFA.. Masai didn't want some other team to come up with a ridiculous offer, like a 4 year deal, $80M deal with no options and have to match that. So they took the best offer that Gary and his agent came up with which lowered term (a priority for Masai) but also gave Gary an option (ie, power back to the player). They also were able to avoid the tax with that deal, which was also a priority.

The Svi option was dumb. But that's hindsight. He looked good in preseason. Was cutting, shooting 3's.. giving us a look we didn't have. And he just ended up sucking. That's just bad luck.

You were upset with the GTJ signing because of the number or because of the options? Look I have no problem with player options but ideally you have player options that are on contracts that are longer than 2 years.

[DanH]

We were in a different situation with Fred. Also we didn't line up two salaries for negotiation at the same time without having extension eligibility being present before. I suppose you could argue we have that in fred but yeah.

I could argue the situation with Fred was pretty much exactly the same, and I do. And I suggest that the way Fred's subsequent deal played out is very much a big part of why players would push for short term when the market is not what they expect.

[DanH]

Perhaps Boddy is different with how he approaches contracts. I don't know if you remember but Bobby was in the signing photo not Masai for GTJ. Not sure if it makes a big difference... but it may make a small difference in terms of approach

Feels like a reach!

[Primer]

According to Hollinger when the cap spikes a $40M per year deal is going to be like a $25M deal today, so keep that in mind when we resign guys. If FVV gets the rumored extension he's going to be a freaking steal. Likewise with Siakam on a max extension pre cap spike. So Gary at $25M is gonna be a good value contract if that's we do next offseason.

Hollinger said expect more and more guys to sign short term and hit UFA as we approach the spike so getting term out of guys pre spike is gonna be the prudent move, even if it seems like an overpay right now.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Feels like a reach!

hence why I said it may be it is plausible.. there is a difference between probability and possibility.

[Kagemusha]

for the exact reason that you are propping him up... and for perception. i mean use kawhi for an example... hmm why did SAS trade kawhi for a lesser player?

The main reason is some team may look at him and say... oh he is younger and he fits what we want and like that.

These front offices are pros that they don't rely on perception.
...well except a few like the Knicks and Kings.
Kawhi, whose stock was relatively low as his health was in question that time, was 'punished' by Pop.
Gary is coming off a career year.
Two totally opposite cases.

Gary is young and fits what THEY want...
And so do ours !

[DanH]

hence why I said it may be it is plausible.. there is a difference between probability and possibility.

Right, but why not the simplest and most obvious explanation? Fred did exactly the same thing in almost exactly the same situation, his reasons for doing so were made abundantly clear when he signed his next deal, and now we are trying to conspiracy theory our way to some sort of alternative reasoning why another guy might do exactly the same thing? It's not a mystery to be solved.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Right, but why not the simplest and most obvious explanation? Fred did exactly the same thing in almost exactly the same situation, his reasons for doing so were made abundantly clear when he signed his next deal, and now we are trying to conspiracy theory our way to some sort of alternative reasoning why another guy might do exactly the same thing? It's not a mystery to be solved.

yeah I gave some possibility for that What are you on about in terms of conspiracy? Give credit where credit is due on this one or reread what I am saying. Unless you are taking the line that your word is law on this one?


Is it really that hard and that much of a "conspiracy" to believe that two people in the same position at different times may approach a job differently even if overall the thinking is aligned?

Don't be snide here.

[TrueTorontoFan]

These front offices are pros that they don't rely on perception.
...well except a few like the Knicks and Kings.
Kawhi, whose stock was relatively low as his health was in question that time, was 'punished' by Pop.
Gary is coming off a career year.
Two totally opposite cases.

Gary is young and fits what THEY want...
And so do ours !

no but it does effect things though more than you think... did you read about how the suns treat their draft process?

[TrueTorontoFan]

According to Hollinger when the cap spikes a $40M per year deal is going to be like a $25M deal today, so keep that in mind when we resign guys. If FVV gets the rumored extension he's going to be a freaking steal. Likewise with Siakam on a max extension pre cap spike. So Gary at $25M is gonna be a good value contract if that's we do next offseason.

Hollinger said expect more and more guys to sign short term and hit UFA as we approach the spike so getting term out of guys pre spike is gonna be the prudent move, even if it seems like an overpay right now.

Yup I think its not only market value but its good value and this is part of why I want to give Siakam a max now.



I don't know if Siakam signs a max right this second. I just wish we had one more year with Gary at around this contract and some how I am being ridiculed for that and treated like I am an idiot.

[DanH]

yeah I gave some possibility for that What are you on about in terms of conspiracy? Give credit where credit is due on this one or reread what I am saying. Unless you are taking the line that your word is law on this one?


Is it really that hard and that much of a "conspiracy" to believe that two people in the same position at different times may approach a job differently even if overall the thinking is aligned?

Don't be snide here.

I mean, sure, if not for the fact that both those people ended up with practically identical outcomes. Why would we assume there was a) some other mystery reason that would drive them to prioritize things differently so naturally they would not have identical outcomes and b) there was also some outside mystery impact from the front office or whatever that coincidentally cancelled out the first mystery reason and ended them in the same location? When the alternative is so... obvious?

Like, I could propose that Trent is planning to leave the NBA and sign overseas after his two years are up, and that's why they landed on that term. Is it possible? Sure! Am I silly to suggest it when there is a much more reasonable explanation? Definitely!

[DanH]

Yup I think its not only market value but its good value and this is part of why I want to give Siakam a max now.



I don't know if Siakam signs a max right this second. I just wish we had one more year with Gary at around this contract and some how I am being ridiculed for that and treated like I am an idiot.

I wish we had that too! It's not silly at all to wish that!

It's very silly to assume that was a real potential outcome though.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I mean, sure, if not for the fact that both those people ended up with practically identical outcomes. Why would we assume there was a) some other mystery reason that would drive them to prioritize things differently so naturally they would not have identical outcomes and b) there was also some outside mystery impact from the front office or whatever that coincidentally cancelled out the first mystery reason and ended them in the same location? When the alternative is so... obvious?

Like, I could propose that Trent is planning to leave the NBA and sign overseas after his two years are up, and that's why they landed on that term. Is it possible? Sure! Am I silly to suggest it when there is a much more reasonable explanation? Definitely!

I never called you silly just for the sake of it .... and you are using a faulty analogy ... again you are being snide for the sake of it .... and I have no problems standing my ground on this


If you honestly think it is the same thing then I have no problems explaining why its not. Also the player option thing how often did we give player options when masai was specifically the GM vs now with Bobby as the GM... I specifically said slight differences in approach are plausible... but you want to now exaggerate how much of a difference that can be.

[LJ2]

My goodness, this is what happens when you spend every waking moment on RR.