Everything Gary Trent Jr.

[G__Deane]

Funny thing about your post is that Fred is a better player than Trent(this is not a debate). But sounds like you'd rather trade Fred and give Trent a raise. Lol. How is that going to improve the team?

Because the roster needs a shakeup, Fred's ceiling has been reached yet he brings back the most (potential) return. Plus, he's going to demand more than Trent (who I'm OK with moving too).

This team is not going to make a big leap next year with the status quo, time to move off the Pasca/Fred core. We're not beating the Bucks, Celtics, Nets or even Sixers in a series. So it's Pascal, Barnes, OG and Achiuwa time plus whatever young players and picks come back for Fred and/or Gary. Build for 2025, not treadmilling for a few more years.

[The Great One]

Because the roster needs a shakeup, Fred's ceiling has been reached yet he brings back the most (potential) return. Plus, he's going to demand more than Trent (who I'm OK with moving too).

This team is not going to make a big leap next year with the status quo, time to move off the Pasca/Fred core. We're not beating the Bucks, Celtics, Nets or even Sixers in a series. So it's Pascal, Barnes, OG and Achiuwa time plus whatever young players and picks come back for Fred and/or Gary. Build for 2025, not treadmilling for a few more years.

Well I sort of agree. I already outlined many times what I want them t o do.

1. Sell high on Trent(this is a no brainer).
2. Trade one of OG/PS. Besides the obvious, trading one of them would open things up for Scottie.
3. Get rid of the scrubs(Boucher, Thad, Birch).
4. IF there's a market for FVV, then trade him. If not then keep him. It's that simple. Selling low is flat out dumb. The tweet from the Pelicans reporter a couple of days ago. That's be a perfect trade. I don't think that's realistic though.

[golden]

Maybe we could trade Gary for Norm and then try to get Rodney Hood back (is he still playing?)

That would simultaneously fix the Bruno draft. lol.

[golden]

Well I sort of agree. I already outlined many times what I want them t o do.

1. Sell high on Trent(this is a no brainer).
2. Trade one of OG/PS. Besides the obvious, trading one of them would open things up for Scottie.
3. Get rid of the scrubs(Boucher, Thad, Birch).
4. IF there's a market for FVV, then trade him. If not then keep him. It's that simple. Selling low is flat out dumb. The tweet from the Pelicans reporter a couple of days ago. That's be a perfect trade. I don't think that's realistic though.

Sure, while we all agree that selling low on Fred (or any player) is dumb... what is the realistic likelihood that Fred's trade value increases if we keep him until the off-season? There are so many things out of the team's control if he opts out.

When we look back in a few years, we might be saying that selling Fred at the trade deadline was actually his highest point.

[LJ2]

I'm hoping Masai proves me wrong but I just foresee a lot of status quo happening. Maybe he moves Trent in an under whelmng way but I think they move forward with just about the status quo. I think the team needs more of a shakeup then he/Bobby have the stomach for.

If it's all about waiting for Scotty, they need even more of a retool. Move Fred AND Gary. Young players and picks, let's go.

Why go the retool route you've described though? Having better players now around Scottie only helps his development and provides some measure of control for trades down the line when Scottie is ready. You put a bunch of young players around Scottie right now then you have the Houston situation I described. And you can only hope those young players develop along the same timeline and turn into something you can contend with. If not you no longer have the trade asset to bring in any good players.

[Primer]

We're running it back, minus Gary...... so we can pay Fred. Was there ever any doubt?



https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-rumo...-kevin-durant/

This is rumor speculation regurgitating the same shit everyone said before the season started. Trent is the most tradeable. Wow, what insight!

[G__Deane]

Well I sort of agree. I already outlined many times what I want them t o do.

1. Sell high on Trent(this is a no brainer).
2. Trade one of OG/PS. Besides the obvious, trading one of them would open things up for Scottie.
3. Get rid of the scrubs(Boucher, Thad, Birch).
4. IF there's a market for FVV, then trade him. If not then keep him. It's that simple. Selling low is flat out dumb. The tweet from the Pelicans reporter a couple of days ago. That's be a perfect trade. I don't think that's realistic though.

The only thing I keep coming back to is Trent is still just 23, a kid with 5 years potential upside until he hits Fred's current potentially depreciating age, yet an accomplished microwave scorer. What if he could give you a consistent 15-20 off the bench in a true 6MOTY role? What value is that and aren't we always looking for it?

Hell, we're looking for it in starters .....who's more likely to improve and not reached his ceiling, him or Fred (at a higher price). And again, Fred likely brings a greater return in a trade to build off. I'm not saying any of this is obvious or guaranteed results but a different option.

I'm not down on trading OG or Pascal yet. Unless of course (as always) the trade is a no brainer over pay from some desperate exec.

[golden]

This is rumor speculation regurgitating the same shit everyone said before the season started. Trent is the most tradeable. Wow, what insight!

The new stuff is the speculation that Masai & Bobby are simply going to double down on the Fred/Siakam/OG core, by (over) paying them all in the next 2 off-season. It's in contrast to the other rampant speculation swirling around that we're going to have a major sell-off at the trade deadline.

Did you actually read it?

[G__Deane]

Why go the retool route you've described though? Having better players now around Scottie only helps his development and provides some measure of control for trades down the line when Scottie is ready. You put a bunch of young players around Scottie right now then you have the Houston situation I described. And you can only hope those young players develop along the same timeline and turn into something you can contend with. If not you no longer have the trade asset to bring in any good players.

It's all just throwing ideas out.

Some people blame Masai and Bobby for not addressing serious roster flaws for years now. Thad, Birch, Otto are not the answers and Flynn, Banton and Dowtin have only shown brief flashes.

Some blame multiple players like FVV, Barnes and Boucher regressing at once. Nobody can hit a three.

Some blame Nurse for his difficult denfensive schemes or is it the low IQ players?

What if Koloko wasn't injured and advanced?
What if Boucher didn't lose his energy or regress?
What of Banton surprised?

No matter where some faction places the bame, there's an argumentative counterpoint since the culprit is not obvious (hence the differing opionions that never change.

We're seeing they may just move GTJr or not even that. With the expected return, it's just about the status quo.....minus an 18PPG player. So we give Fred a raise, then what? So what?

You put a bunch of young exciting players around Barnes, OG and Pascal and you may have Houston, but you may have a better Cavs team ....

People are so accepting that we're lagging far behind the Celtics, Nets, Bucks and Sixers. But how are we OK with being behind the Bulls, Pacer, Hawks and Knicks???

I'm one of the minority that's really not OK with it. Ownership and Management, players are done getting a complete pass, time for change.

[slaw]

The new stuff is the speculation that Masai & Bobby are simply going to double down on the Fred/Siakam/OG core, by (over) paying them all in the next 2 off-season. It's in contrast to the other rampant speculation swirling around that we're going to have a major sell-off at the trade deadline.

Did you actually read it?

Lewenberg and Grange have been hinting at the Raps being patient for weeks.

Given the track record of this front office, the idea that they are going to blow things up after a bad half season is far more unlikely than that they make a few tweaks and try to improve for next season. It's the fans and certain media that are talking about major changes but the front office hasn't suggested anything of the sort.

The Raps aren't likely to be traditional sellers moving win-now players for magic beans. If they do, it would be a radical departure from the way this FO has operated since it's been in charge. So people wanting/expecting that should temper their expectations.

[LJ2]

It's all just throwing ideas out.

Some people blame Masai and Bobby for not addressing serious roster flaws for years now. Thad, Birch, Otto are not the answers and Flynn, Banton and Dowtin have only shown brief flashes.

Some blame multiple players like FVV, Barnes and Boucher regressing at once. Nobody can hit a three.

Some blame Nurse for his difficult denfensive schemes or is it the low IQ players?

What if Koloko wasn't injured and advanced?
What if Boucher didn't lose his energy or regress?
What of Banton surprised?

No matter where some faction places the bame, there's an argumentative counterpoint since the culprit is not obvious (hence the differing opionions that never change.

We're seeing they may just move GTJr or not even that. With the expected return, it's just about the status quo.....minus an 18PPG player. So we give Fred a raise, then what? So what?

You put a bunch of young exciting players around Barnes, OG and Pascal and you may have Houston, but you may have a better Cavs team ....

People are so accepting that we're lagging far behind the Celtics, Nets, Bucks and Sixers. But how are we OK with being behind the Bulls, Pacer, Hawks and Knicks???

I'm one of the minority that's really not OK with it. Ownership and Management, players are done getting a complete pass, time for change.

To me it sort of all rests on Scotties shoulders. If he develops into a top 10 type of player in the next could of years then you give it a shot at contending with Pascal and Fred. If not then Pascal and Fred are the pieces you trade to bring in a young star to play with Scottie.

Sucks seeing Cavs and Celtics pass us, but how many years did they completely suck before they got to this point? Look at the bright side, we've only completely sucked for half a season. Way more crappy basketball to go if we're following the Cavs' path to success.

[Primer]

The new stuff is the speculation that Masai & Bobby are simply going to double down on the Fred/Siakam/OG core, by (over) paying them all in the next 2 off-season. It's in contrast to the other rampant speculation swirling around that we're going to have a major sell-off at the trade deadline.

Did you actually read it?

I read the quote you posted and none of that is news other than the mega high asking price for Pascal and OG. Notice how they didn't say exorbitant asking price for Fred. He's on the block too and affordable.

Trading Gary really doesn't clear our books to give Fred a big raise.

[Yuri Gagarin]

To me it sort of all rests on Scotties shoulders. If he develops into a top 10 type of player in the next could of years then you give it a shot at contending with Pascal and Fred. If not then Pascal and Fred are the pieces you trade to bring in a young star to play with Scottie.

Sucks seeing Cavs and Celtics pass us, but how many years did they completely suck before they got to this point? Look at the bright side, we've only completely sucked for half a season. Way more crappy basketball to go if we're following the Cavs' path to success.

Last summer I said I wasnt sure about the internal growth idea and was worried about the teams behind us growing faster and you said this isnt some poorly managed franchise we should be top 4. Now you say we completely suck its ok just wait until barnes turns into a top 10. One guy wont save us even IF he became a top 10. By then he’d need a whole new team to play with anyway

[DanH]

The new stuff is the speculation that Masai & Bobby are simply going to double down on the Fred/Siakam/OG core, by (over) paying them all in the next 2 off-season. It's in contrast to the other rampant speculation swirling around that we're going to have a major sell-off at the trade deadline.

Did you actually read it?

That's not new though. It's been the assumed path forward since the GTJ contract was signed.

[DanH]

I read the quote you posted and none of that is news other than the mega high asking price for Pascal and OG. Notice how they didn't say exorbitant asking price for Fred. He's on the block too and affordable.

Trading Gary really doesn't clear our books to give Fred a big raise.

I think the important distinction is that trading Gary is not necessarily needed to give Fred a reasonable raise. We can maybe dodge the tax to keep the entire core together, at least for one more year (raises after that may cause some tough decisions).

So the decision, if a trade is made, is that they'd prefer whatever futures they get to having Gary continue on with the team (or they've evaluated the market and think Gary will get a stupid overpay and aren't interested in that, a la the Norm trade that brought Gary here in the first place).

They've probably made a similar evaluation with Fred and think there's more bang for their buck keeping him than Gary (in total agreement on that by the way). Fred has been always undervalued in the free agency market, and I imagine the same would be true in the trade market, so Gary is both more likely to get overpaid in FA (relative to value) and also more likely to get an overpay in the trade market.