Everything Gary Trent Jr.

[golden]

He believes we need to break up this backcourt. Do you agree with his assessments on Fred & Gary?

"Both seem to be having similar issues on offense and defense: (1) Incomplete and not very versatile on defense. (2) Somewhat selfish, and limited in creativity on offense."

[LJ2]

He believes we need to break up this backcourt. Do you agree with his assessments on Fred & Gary?

"Both seem to be having similar issues on offense and defense: (1) Incomplete and not very versatile on defense. (2) Somewhat selfish, and limited in creativity on offense."

Definitely a lot of facts being said which you can't disagree with. Yes, Fred is short and defenders see over him and he's not a natural point guard. Yes, Gary isn't a natural defender and gets burned a lot. Yes both take bad shots at times, Fred because he's smaller and Gary because of his shot selection.

It was also Fred's first year as a full time PG and he did what I thought was a good job considering he was the lone vet at time. Trying to bring a bunch of new players up to speed while navigating a new role isn't the easiest thing but he kept us afloat. It was also Gary's first full year focusing on defense and he proved a lot of people wrong. Lots wrote him off as a Nick Young type player that wouldn't play defense, but he showed effort. It doesn't make him a good defender by the various metrics but he showed growth which is what you want to see.

I'm up for seeing what these guys show in year two.

As always if there is a worthwhile upgrade to be had then sure go for it, but I'm not trading FVV for Delon Wright because he's taller. Another consideration is how will the offense being initiated through Barnes/Siakam impact Fred and Gary's shots? Naturally there should be a lot more catch and shoot looks as opposed to off the dribble. Does that raise their efficiency?

[planetmars]

The people's line up is to move Precious into the starting line up and have Gary come off the bench. So that resolves that issue with having Fred/Gary be guys out on the perimeter defending guys larger than them or having to create offense amongst giants.

We'll see if Nurse feels the same way.. but if I recall our net rating with the "small" lineup was about even. Which isn't great if you want to be a contender.

[DanH]

The people's line up is to move Precious into the starting line up and have Gary come off the bench. So that resolves that issue with having Fred/Gary be guys out on the perimeter defending guys larger than them or having to create offense amongst giants.

We'll see if Nurse feels the same way.. but if I recall our net rating with the "small" lineup was about even. Which isn't great if you want to be a contender.

Yeah, break even on the year, though they did better later in games, so still viable as a closing group. Disaster in 1st Qs, which is just what you want from a starting lineup.

[Primer]

He believes we need to break up this backcourt. Do you agree with his assessments on Fred & Gary?

"Both seem to be having similar issues on offense and defense: (1) Incomplete and not very versatile on defense. (2) Somewhat selfish, and limited in creativity on offense."

I disagree pretty hard with that take on Fred's defense.

As Mars said move Gary to 6th man and Precious into starting lineup, problem solved.

Giving more playmaking to Scottie and Pascal also alleviates Fred's lack of creativity and selfishness on offense. Keep Fred as an off ball shooter, which is he is one of the best in the league.

[golden]

I disagree pretty hard with that take on Fred's defense.

As Mars said move Gary to 6th man and Precious into starting lineup, problem solved.

Giving more playmaking to Scottie and Pascal also alleviates Fred's lack of creativity and selfishness on offense. Keep Fred as an off ball shooter, which is he is one of the best in the league.

While the People's Lineup makes a lot of sense, demoting GTJ to 6th man will directly contradict one of Nurse's core coaching philosophies, which is: "to help his players get paid". Nurse says he does that by getting them "from 13th man to 9th, from 9th man to 6th man, etc..."

Being labelled a 6th man, instead of starter, puts Gary into the Jordan Clarkson, Colin Sexton salary class. That's not good for Gary's career, entering a contract year.

It's gonna be interesting how this plays out. They could be pissed at Klutch & how Gary's previous contract negotiations went... he never seems to mentioned by Masai when he's talking about young, core players on this team.

[DanH]

You could also argue it puts Gary into Tyler Herro contract territory. Rumours have him around 25M a year give or take. I don't think 6th man stuff necessarily hinders the salary situation, so long as the team sees upside there, and I'm pretty sure Gary would be seen as having that upside.

Also helps if the Raps have already had early discussions about the sort of offer they will have on the table for him in FA.

[golden]

You could also argue it puts Gary into Tyler Herro contract territory. Rumours have him around 25M a year give or take. I don't think 6th man stuff necessarily hinders the salary situation, so long as the team sees upside there, and I'm pretty sure Gary would be seen as having that upside.

Also helps if the Raps have already had early discussions about the sort of offer they will have on the table for him in FA.

The other rumors have Herro believing he should be a starter and getting a max contract extension (~ $37M/yr).

Both of those things (bench player, $25M/yr) seem pretty far apart from what Herro wants or thinks he is. Also have to factor in that he'd be one of the outgoing pieces if the Heat were actually able to get a trade done for Durant, so it will be interesting to see if the Herro extension actually gets done this off-season.

[Hotshot]

The other rumors have Herro believing he should be a starter and getting a max contract extension (~ $37M/yr).

Both of those things (bench player, $25M/yr) seem pretty far apart from what Herro wants or thinks he is. Also have to factor in that he'd be one of the outgoing pieces if the Heat were actually able to get a trade done for Durant, so it will be interesting to see if the Herro extension actually gets done this off-season.

I think Riley is going to play hardball with Herro and justifiably so.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I think Riley is going to play hardball with Herro and justifiably so.

if he some how gets 37 a year.... oh man..... I doubt that he gets that though

[Hotshot]

You could also argue it puts Gary into Tyler Herro contract territory. Rumours have him around 25M a year give or take. I don't think 6th man stuff necessarily hinders the salary situation, so long as the team sees upside there, and I'm pretty sure Gary would be seen as having that upside.

Also helps if the Raps have already had early discussions about the sort of offer they will have on the table for him in FA.

I can see GTJ asking a contract similar to what CJ McCollum got as his first new contract in Portland 4 yr(s) / $106,633,449.

However he has to put numbers close to what CJ did before he got that contract: 48- FG%, 42- 3p% (2.3 -5.5) , 91 -FT% (3.4-3.7), 3.6 TRB, 3.6 AST, 23 pts.

[Primer]

While the People's Lineup makes a lot of sense, demoting GTJ to 6th man will directly contradict one of Nurse's core coaching philosophies, which is: "to help his players get paid". Nurse says he does that by getting them "from 13th man to 9th, from 9th man to 6th man, etc..."

Being labelled a 6th man, instead of starter, puts Gary into the Jordan Clarkson, Colin Sexton salary class. That's not good for Gary's career, entering a contract year.

It's gonna be interesting how this plays out. They could be pissed at Klutch & how Gary's previous contract negotiations went... he never seems to mentioned by Masai when he's talking about young, core players on this team.

Precious needs to move up the depth chart to get paid more as well. Doing that this season when he deserves it and it's best for the team is what that philosophy says to do. A young C coming off 2 seasons of being an above average starter is gonna get a much bigger contract than a guy that couldn't make the starting lineup in year 3 at a position with no competition in the starting lineup.

You could easily argue that keeping Precious benched is worse for his career than moving Gary to 6th man.

[Hotshot]

if he some how gets 37 a year.... oh man..... I doubt that he gets that though

I say 27 per year is even too rich for him but that maybe where the contract ends up to (close to 30?!)

Off the bench cause he can't defend well & gets shutdown by defensive starters in the playoffs.

The DeRozan of 3 pointers

[A.I]

While the People's Lineup makes a lot of sense, demoting GTJ to 6th man will directly contradict one of Nurse's core coaching philosophies, which is: "to help his players get paid". Nurse says he does that by getting them "from 13th man to 9th, from 9th man to 6th man, etc..."

Being labelled a 6th man, instead of starter, puts Gary into the Jordan Clarkson, Colin Sexton salary class. That's not good for Gary's career, entering a contract year.

It's gonna be interesting how this plays out. They could be pissed at Klutch & how Gary's previous contract negotiations went... he never seems to mentioned by Masai when he's talking about young, core players on this team.

That is a vague statement by Nick in terms of getting paid what amount.

Gary already got paid, he is making $18M. Precious is making $4M. I'd say Precious, if he starts and plays well, will definitely get paid big by the Raptors. Gary's next contract, whether he starts or plays well in the sixth man role, will probably be in the $20-25M range, which will be an increase.

I also feel Precious is part of the core and Masai wants to keep him long term. Gary on the otherhand, was brought here so the Raptors didn't have to pay Norm and to basically get younger.

So hypothetically if it comes to Precious or Gary, Raptors keep Precious.

[TrueTorontoFan]

That is a vague statement by Nick in terms of getting paid what amount.

Gary already got paid, he is making $18M. Precious is making $4M. I'd say Precious, if he starts and plays well, will definitely get paid big by the Raptors. Gary's next contract, whether he starts or plays well in the sixth man role, will probably be in the $20-25M range, which will be an increase.

I also feel Precious is part of the core and Masai wants to keep him long term. Gary on the otherhand, was brought here so the Raptors didn't have to pay Norm and to basically get younger.

So hypothetically if it comes to Precious or Gary, Raptors keep Precious.

I will also add on to your statement by saying it isn't fair to lump sexton and clarkson's salary numbers with Gary given that they were signed in different years to different valuations.... but yes I agree your range is where I have it pegged.


We have time before having to pay Precious.