Everything Gary Trent Jr.

[planetmars]

Okay, is.... just... okay. But you look at how the Warriors were able to parlay KD leaving into D'Angelo Russell, then into Wiggins, Wiseman & Kuminga. That's elite asset management. We obviously have a stellar front office, but as franchise with a clear FA recruiting disadvantage, asset management is critical if we want to compete with championship caliber franchises. That's Masai's goal: championships. Can't have guys repeatedly leaving for nothing.

If Masai wasn't stubborn he would have gotten something from a Kawhi S&T. Golden State pawned off KD of all people to get D'Angelo. Wiseman was the result of a tank. Kuminga and Wiggins was the package for D'Angelo. Great asset management. But we did the same with Kyle ending up with Thad and Precious.

I just don't think Gary is worth anything close to that. Maybe some future pick, but that's doubtful. But we'll see. I'm okay if he walks for nothing. But we likely will do a S&T if he does leave.

[TrueTorontoFan]

If Masai wasn't stubborn he would have gotten something from a Kawhi S&T. Golden State pawned off KD of all people to get D'Angelo. Wiseman was the result of a tank. Kuminga and Wiggins was the package for D'Angelo. Great asset management. But we did the same with Kyle ending up with Thad and Precious.

I just don't think Gary is worth anything close to that. Maybe some future pick, but that's doubtful. But we'll see. I'm okay if he walks for nothing. But we likely will do a S&T if he does leave.

KD helped GSW out with that.... it isn't on masai but yes it would have been nice also they gave up all their assets... I could be wrong but I believe from a monetary stand point at the time there was an advantage for him to not sign a bigger contract than he did with the clippers so he could reup later so there was no real advantage that could have been exploited. The only thing that I was personally hoping for was him signing a 1+1 with us.


As for Gary, we could work a sign and trade if he leaves so that is definitely possible but for me I would just want one thing Bogdonavic and future draft equity. we can toss in Flynn The money works without needing to toss in flynn though.

[TrueTorontoFan]

David Thorpe gave his thoughts on the starting lineup on Will Lou's podcast.

TLDR: He said Precious should start and you could convince Gary to try and win sixth man of the year on a winning team. There is value in that and he is going to get paid regardless whether he starts or not.

If Gary has a problem with coming off the bench, you look to trade him because at that point he won't fit with what the Raptors want to do and you also don't want to ruin his career.

was this today?

[TrueTorontoFan]

For some reason Gary is rarely mentioned by Masai, Bobby or even Nick. It's like he's the bastard child in the organization. Maybe they brought him in thinking they'd get him for 2 years, and then move on. I mean we could get a guy like Jordan Clarkson to replace him right now. Utah is having a fire sale.

I don't think Gary is indispensable. If he leaves, he leaves. Gives us more wiggle room to extend Precious, Pascal and Fred and help bring back OG to a bigger contract if we want to.

rarely is an understatement... he literally wasn't mentioned once by any of the 3 ... through multiple interviews.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Trent isn't a natural creator either and does his best work as a floor spacer.

Which is why you ask him to build those skills or at least be the offensive engine that makes the 2nd unit tick. He realistically shouldn't be the 2nd or 3rd offensive option given who is on this team in the starting line up ... that should go to OG... and I would put him behind og.

[chris]

from dan devine:

Shooters get paid in the modern NBA, and Trent has proven to be a very good one, even at elevated volume. He’s drilled 37.8 percent of the nearly eight triples he’s hoisted per game since joining the Raptors at the 2021 trade deadline, including a 41.1 percent mark on catch-and-shoot looks last season. He’s more than a spot-up option, too, showing significant growth as a full-fledged scorer capable of generating good looks on his own; out of 123 players who attacked defenders in isolation at least 100 times last season, Trent ranked fourth in points per chance, according to Second Spectrum. His combination of floor-spacing and midrange shot creation was particularly helpful in decongesting a Raptors offense that tended to get claustrophobic: Toronto scored at a top-six level with him on the court, and at a bottom-six rate with him off of it.

one-trick pony

[DanH]

One more thing to consider for Gary: he scored 18.3 PPG this year.

But he does not get that scoring opportunity with the starters. In 345 minutes played in that small ball lineup, he averaged 12.9 points per 36 minutes.

Playing primarily in lineups with fewer starters or in bench units is his clearest path to gaudy point totals, which is far more correlated to getting paid than some nominal starter/bench label.

I think I screwed up the math on this. It was not quite as stark as the above. No idea where I got 13 PP36, but he does see a significant dip, to 16 PP36 from his 19 PP36 overall.

Actually that starting lineup is hilarious. Points per 36 for the players in the small starting lineup, when in that starting lineup (vs overall):

Fred: 16.2 (19.3)
Gary: 16.0 (18.9)
OG: 15.4 (17.1)
Pascal: 16.9 (21.7)
Scottie: 16.0 (15.6)

Wowzers. Scottie is weird. But that's a balanced lineup! Still a not good one, but very balanced! I'd argue that's part of the problem...

[Kagemusha]

Which is why you ask him to build those skills or at least be the offensive engine that makes the 2nd unit tick. He realistically shouldn't be the 2nd or 3rd offensive option given who is on this team in the starting line up ... that should go to OG... and I would put him behind og.

1. Pascal
2. Fred
3. Scottie
4. OG

OG is one of the best 3 & D players in the whole NBA,
Everytime he STICKS to THAT specific role.

[TrueTorontoFan]

1. Pascal
2. Fred
3. Scottie
4. OG

OG is one of the best 3 & D players in the whole NBA,
Everytime he STICKS to THAT specific role.

Swap Fred and Scottie and I agree.


That said you want to give OG more and more just to test out his skill progression

[saints91]

OG just needs to stay healthy, last year he was in and out of the lineup so much that he got buried in the offence when he came back. Precious, Pascal, OG, Fred, Scottie lineup, with Gary playing 30+minutes off the bench is going to keep them in the top 6. We still have Porter Jr., Boucher, Thad, Flynn/Banton looking to play some quality minutes behind these guys.

[Kagemusha]

Swap Fred and Scottie and I agree.


That said you want to give OG more and more just to test out his skill progression

Not so fast.
Scottie will still defer to Fred.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Not so fast.
Scottie will still defer to Fred.

initiating is different though.. I want fred taking shots just not initiating the offensive sets to get him those shots.

[LJ2]

I think I screwed up the math on this. It was not quite as stark as the above. No idea where I got 13 PP36, but he does see a significant dip, to 16 PP36 from his 19 PP36 overall.

Actually that starting lineup is hilarious. Points per 36 for the players in the small starting lineup, when in that starting lineup (vs overall):

Fred: 16.2 (19.3)
Gary: 16.0 (18.9)
OG: 15.4 (17.1)
Pascal: 16.9 (21.7)
Scottie: 16.0 (15.6)

Wowzers. Scottie is weird. But that's a balanced lineup! Still a not good one, but very balanced! I'd argue that's part of the problem...

My guess would be that we wont see that type of balance in shot distribution this season.

[DanH]

My guess would be that we wont see that type of balance in shot distribution this season.

If we start those 5 again, why would we assume it would be different? Who is getting less shots?

[LJ2]

I would speculate Gary, Fred and OG who will be creating shots for themselves less and be in the role of finishers more.