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  • inthepaint wrote: View Post

    I think it all depends on how we see the last season for us. Was that just a hotel season where many games were missed due to injury/covid by our main players and on the final stretch we intentionally tanked to move up on the draft? Or is that the likely record we're getting this coming season too regardless?

    Most likely the former. We're closer to the team on the bubble (took 2nd round to 7 games). That's actually where Atlanta is right now, except they are likely not taking their 2nd round to game 7 (Philly will finish them off sooner). In other words, if they're a "serious playoff team", so are we (unless the same stuff that went on last season goes on again, including Baynes)
    exactly. I think this year will be the year that determines whether or not we trade Siakam and FVV or not.

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    • Atlanta is fun but I don't think they're that good. Hawks and Knicks are the new Pacers and Magic at the bottom of East.

      I've said this before, there's an 'everybody else is getting better' mania at the start of every season. Half those teams you think will be better? They won't be. Injuries, circumstances, and just not being as good as you'd think all hit several teams every year. Look at the Heat and Celtics this past year - pretty sure no one was predicting them to drop off, plus have the Magic AND Pacers fall right out of the playoffs. Plus have the Raptors go from #2 overall seed to the lottery. The East was not exactly a bloodbath, there were basically 3 actually good teams then a bunch of middling ones. And those 3 good teams? Embiid's playing injured, Nets now have 2 of their top 3 out. One healthy team and it's only round 2. Management isn't going to pull the plug because of where other teams might or might not be at a year from now. You just don't run a team that way.
      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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      • S.R. wrote: View Post
        Atlanta is fun but I don't think they're that good. Hawks and Knicks are the new Pacers and Magic at the bottom of East.

        I've said this before, there's an 'everybody else is getting better' mania at the start of every season. Half those teams you think will be better? They won't be. Injuries, circumstances, and just not being as good as you'd think all hit several teams every year. Look at the Heat and Celtics this past year - pretty sure no one was predicting them to drop off, plus have the Magic AND Pacers fall right out of the playoffs. Plus have the Raptors go from #2 overall seed to the lottery. The East was not exactly a bloodbath, there were basically 3 actually good teams then a bunch of middling ones. And those 3 good teams? Embiid's playing injured, Nets now have 2 of their top 3 out. One healthy team and it's only round 2. Management isn't going to pull the plug because of where other teams might or might not be at a year from now. You just don't run a team that way.
        I think the underrated part about this year is it demonstrated the difficulty of having a team be successful long-term while keeping everyone healthy. We have had a crazy run playoff-wise with deep runs but that takes its toll. This was the best thing to happen to the franchise. Everyone gets a chance to finally get healthy to have a proper off-season in non-covid times. I am curious what happens if we had played the playoffs last year without covid being a thing if the outcome is different and we make it to the finals. I do think there is a chance that happened but we will never know.

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        • planetmars wrote: View Post
          Pascal sucked in those 10 games (-5.7 net rating), but Baynes (-10.6) and Len (-13.0) were so much worse. That center rotation was utter garbage early on. We have to nail that position for next year to have any chance for the playoffs.

          Freddie all year had a net rating of -9.6 and Birch was -1.1. We need to be better than them as well.
          Birch and Freddie played a lot of minutes late in the season where the Raptors were resting like their entire starting linuep, or as close as they could manage. Intentionally losing. Hard to grade them much on that.

          The team dominated Birch's minutes in the few games where he got to play with a bunch of starters.

          Just need functional C play to be way better than they were this year.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • S.R. wrote: View Post
            Atlanta is fun but I don't think they're that good. Hawks and Knicks are the new Pacers and Magic at the bottom of East.

            I've said this before, there's an 'everybody else is getting better' mania at the start of every season. Half those teams you think will be better? They won't be. Injuries, circumstances, and just not being as good as you'd think all hit several teams every year. Look at the Heat and Celtics this past year - pretty sure no one was predicting them to drop off, plus have the Magic AND Pacers fall right out of the playoffs. Plus have the Raptors go from #2 overall seed to the lottery. The East was not exactly a bloodbath, there were basically 3 actually good teams then a bunch of middling ones. And those 3 good teams? Embiid's playing injured, Nets now have 2 of their top 3 out. One healthy team and it's only round 2. Management isn't going to pull the plug because of where other teams might or might not be at a year from now. You just don't run a team that way.
            The way I see it is that the Raptors team from last season (the 2019-2020 season) and next season (the 2021-2022) season could look radically different. The 2020 team had no star player and we had a lot of injuries / starting line ups but found a way to win at a 60 win pace, and get the record that we did.

            We had kids that year like Davis and Thomas but we relied heavily on the vets. And at that time we had Serge/Marc/Norm/Kyle. 3 of those guys are gone. Lowry could be as well. I mean really good chance he's gone.

            The 2022 outlook feels bleak. Kyle Lowry is an underrated superstar.. like Chris Paul is proving it in Phoenix now, and OKC last year. He made that team successful. He got Ibaka to who is spots. He helped lead the team when they were struggling. It was he and that bench that got that win against Dallas during that crazy come back. He fueled that win against Brooklyn when the crowd was against him. Just like he did against the Lakers this season. He is the reason we even got to a game 7 against the Raptors.

            Without Kyle I just don't see this team being that great. We'll have some good players.. that play tough defense.. and will win some games due to working harder than their opponent.. but the skill for the most part is lacking.. and that toughness that Kyle brought will be lacking. He was our identity.

            I hope I'm wrong. I hope Fred and Pascal pick up the slack. I hope Nurse utilizes his bench and young kids better (we're going to have a lot of them). I hope management brings in role players / vets that can help win (and I don't mean guys like Baynes, Carroll or Hood). I hope we have a healthy season for the most part (although Pascal's surgery is already a big step back). And I hope we can make the playoffs again. I'm just skeptical right now. I think it's going to be a slog of a year again if Lowry's leaves.

            And this is only partly due to the improvements other teams made.. which I understand could mean nothing. "Organic growth" only takes you so far. A team like Atlanta, NY, Boston or Miami could all end up in the lottery next year if any one of those clubs get a significant injury to a star player or something.

            Comment


            • DanH wrote: View Post

              Birch and Freddie played a lot of minutes late in the season where the Raptors were resting like their entire starting linuep, or as close as they could manage. Intentionally losing. Hard to grade them much on that.

              The team dominated Birch's minutes in the few games where he got to play with a bunch of starters.

              Just need functional C play to be way better than they were this year.
              Yes, and Kyle Lowry back.

              Comment


              • planetmars wrote: View Post

                Yes, and Kyle Lowry back.
                With Lowry back I'd be putting them in conversation, possibly as favourites, for home court. Without him they should still be well >.500 and in the playoffs. Again, so long as they have halfway decent C play.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • DanH wrote: View Post

                  With Lowry back I'd be putting them in conversation, possibly as favourites, for home court. Without him they should still be well >.500 and in the playoffs. Again, so long as they have halfway decent C play.
                  Isn't it pretty much a lock that we will re-sign Birch? He's a halfway decent C, right?

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                  • golden wrote: View Post

                    Isn't it pretty much a lock that we will re-sign Birch? He's a halfway decent C, right?
                    Yes. And yes.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • DanH wrote: View Post

                      With Lowry back I'd be putting them in conversation, possibly as favourites, for home court. Without him they should still be well >.500 and in the playoffs. Again, so long as they have halfway decent C play.
                      Agree again here. We don't need Lowry to make the playoffs. Lowry back I think we compete for a 3 seed, without him a 4-5 seed depending on what players we get to replace him.

                      Do people really still think Atlanta is a world beater? They had one decent game against Philly that they nearly blew in the 4th quarter and have looked over matched since then. They also have a big decision on whether to retain Collins at max or near max. This season could easily be the high watermark for this version of the Hawks.

                      The Raptors are still one of the best looking teams in the East with a ton of flexibility to do something different if they want.

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                      • ….

                        Me being speechless for some time there lol
                        Last edited by The Claw Reborn; Mon Jun 14, 2021, 10:25 PM.

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                        • planetmars wrote: View Post

                          The way I see it is that the Raptors team from last season (the 2019-2020 season) and next season (the 2021-2022) season could look radically different. The 2020 team had no star player and we had a lot of injuries / starting line ups but found a way to win at a 60 win pace, and get the record that we did.

                          We had kids that year like Davis and Thomas but we relied heavily on the vets. And at that time we had Serge/Marc/Norm/Kyle. 3 of those guys are gone. Lowry could be as well. I mean really good chance he's gone.

                          The 2022 outlook feels bleak. Kyle Lowry is an underrated superstar.. like Chris Paul is proving it in Phoenix now, and OKC last year. He made that team successful. He got Ibaka to who is spots. He helped lead the team when they were struggling. It was he and that bench that got that win against Dallas during that crazy come back. He fueled that win against Brooklyn when the crowd was against him. Just like he did against the Lakers this season. He is the reason we even got to a game 7 against the Raptors.

                          Without Kyle I just don't see this team being that great. We'll have some good players.. that play tough defense.. and will win some games due to working harder than their opponent.. but the skill for the most part is lacking.. and that toughness that Kyle brought will be lacking. He was our identity.

                          I hope I'm wrong. I hope Fred and Pascal pick up the slack. I hope Nurse utilizes his bench and young kids better (we're going to have a lot of them). I hope management brings in role players / vets that can help win (and I don't mean guys like Baynes, Carroll or Hood). I hope we have a healthy season for the most part (although Pascal's surgery is already a big step back). And I hope we can make the playoffs again. I'm just skeptical right now. I think it's going to be a slog of a year again if Lowry's leaves.

                          And this is only partly due to the improvements other teams made.. which I understand could mean nothing. "Organic growth" only takes you so far. A team like Atlanta, NY, Boston or Miami could all end up in the lottery next year if any one of those clubs get a significant injury to a star player or something.
                          Lowry is good, as evidence by how he does when everyone is out. Again he is a floor raiser and underrated one. That is a big big superstar type thing. You also discount and underrated the team was when healthy.

                          It was a REALLY well built team. The he raises the floor and the rest raise the ceiling.

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                          • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

                            Lowry is good, as evidence by how he does when everyone is out. Again he is a floor raiser and underrated one. That is a big big superstar type thing. You also discount and underrated the team was when healthy.

                            It was a REALLY well built team. The he raises the floor and the rest raise the ceiling.
                            The team is built well.. but is lacking a star. Kyle made up for that.. if Lowry stays we're a playoff team no doubt (pending any injury issues of course). If he's gone, I'd put my money on them being a lottery team again. Maybe not the 7th worst team in the NBA.. but I don't think we'll get a playoff game.

                            I really hope I'm wrong. And it's still early. Who knows.. maybe we can get a great player in free agency or trade and I'm underestimating them. But we'll see. First time in a long time that I'm not overly optimistic about this team going into next season.

                            Comment


                            • The combination of full training camp, full season with a C that fits the system, lottery pick, playing back home, and incoming pieces/cap space from a Lowry trade will put this team in the playoffs again, possibly even with home court depending on injuries to other teams. That's where I'm at.

                              This team looks it could be gearing up to that 2015-2018 level where they were winning and growing/developing at the same time.
                              2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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