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  • #31
    lol. Nice find Jclaw. Here is the mother of all tanking threads....

    https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/f...-track-edition





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    • #32
      Jclaw wrote: View Post
      FWIW, here's my two cents. Do people describe what the Warriors did last year as tanking? Or was it taking advantage of a random number of events to get a good pick and get right back to where they were? Because that's more what we're doing. Come back next year with a post covid squad and any good draft pick we get this year is a bonus.
      Everyone has their own take. I really do think its Tampa/Covid and Masai/Bobby's lack of judgement in free agency or inability to pivot when Baynes shat the bed. It's all of that plus some regression.

      A lot of basketball is flow and rhythm. A jazz concert so to speak.

      It might sound like bull sh!t but there is some truth in it. Our flow is completely off.

      We started off slowly. Bubble P never left. Baynes arrived. And we were readjusting to Tampa life with little practice time before the games started. We lost some close games in the beginning but were 2-8. Norm was awful early on if you don't remember as well. So we didn't get his scoring. Instead we got a lot of fumbling and bad basketball.

      Then we went on a pretty good streak. Beat some good teams. Played excellent Raptor ball and were rolling before all hell broke loose again. Even during that sort of good streak we had to overcome so bad play by the bench and Baynes. We didn't have that problem last year. Terrence Davis wasn't good. Flynn wasn't helping early. Our best bench player outside of Boucher was Watanabe? And then he got dunked on.

      Anyway once Covid happened it just went down hill. Lowry/Norm could not do enough to right the ship, although we had a close loss against Boston (who suck this year). When Pascal/Fred came back, you could see they were really off. Remember Fred had a 54 pt game this year. Rattled off more losses to really bad teams. Had one great win against Denver to say goodbye to Kyle and Norm. But then we again continued to crap the bed (although the Utah loss was irritating due to the foul discrepancy).

      And now we're here. Guys don't play hard.. and Nurse requires it. We just don't have the legs or energy. The games don't matter.. the whole season is a waste... and it's showing.

      I think a better center will just help us become a .500 team. Some better play from Pascal/Fred/OG will get us to a .600 team. And maybe we can get to the 5th or 6th seed.

      We are no where near contender status... but at least we should get back to a 2nd round exit team. That team was fun to watch and kind of hoping we get it back again next year.. and hope and pray this year was just one giant fluke of a year.

      Comment


      • #33
        The Great One wrote: View Post
        A lot of people are going to be upset WHEN the Raptors make the playoffs lmao. They are going to make the playoffs. My opinion has not changed.

        One thing that I don't understand is why the pro tankers get upset when they lose a game? last night for example. Shouldn't you be cheering for them to lose?
        I certainly was not upset at the loss last night. Wouldn't call it a pleasant experience because it's bad basketball but no-pain-no-gain.

        Comment


        • #34
          I really goes to show what a house of cards winning is. You get a spell of bad luck, your roster doesn't have great balance and chemisty, all it takes is a gentle nudge (or 10) to upset the apple cart.

          The great thing is that we can do this while keeping our core intact. People didn't think that was possible, that Lowry and co were too good to lose, but it's not only possible - it's reality.

          Comment


          • #35
            MixxAOR wrote: View Post


            so many posters that disappeared
            The irony is that the posters who were the most passionate about "championship or bust" never even showed up when we won the championship. lol.

            Comment


            • #36
              inthepaint wrote: View Post

              That would be nice but it's unlikely. Rookies take time, even if they're really good and with a lot of potential. The last 5 rookies-of-the-year were:

              KAT
              brogdon
              Simmons
              Doncic
              Morant

              They're all good players but all their teams are sputtering, with the exception of Philly for Simmons, but this is his 4th year. Zion, considered by many a "generational" pick, still has his team at 12th in the west and below .500. It takes time.

              There's no magic bullet on any draft that's going to turn this team around (or any team) right away. That said, it's where you start if you're not a FA destination. It took a long, careful buildup and internal development of assets to get to the champioship level we had:

              --9th overall Derozan , 9th overall Poeltl, 8th overall T-Ross, 5th overall Valanciunas, FRP Delon Wright, all carefully/slowly developed over the 5+ years on Raptor playoff teams, plus several other picks for:

              --Kawhi, Green, Serge & Gasol, which are all gone now. Absolutely worth it, because it got us championship, but it doesn't change the fact that the pantry is bare with this exodus (which happened for a variety of reasons), and that it will take a long time to build it up again unfortunately.

              Fortunately though, we can expedite the restocking of the talent pantry again by trading Lowry while he still has value.
              Maybe this season is our penance for being so damn lucky to get our first chip .

              Hopefully as I said on the game thread yesterday, the bball gods should gift this season’s tank commanders a game changer from this upcoming draft.

              But it is definitely not all rainbows and unicorns.

              Comment


              • #37
                planetmars wrote: View Post

                Everyone has their own take. I really do think its Tampa/Covid and Masai/Bobby's lack of judgement in free agency or inability to pivot when Baynes shat the bed. It's all of that plus some regression.

                A lot of basketball is flow and rhythm. A jazz concert so to speak.

                It might sound like bull sh!t but there is some truth in it. Our flow is completely off.

                We started off slowly. Bubble P never left. Baynes arrived. And we were readjusting to Tampa life with little practice time before the games started. We lost some close games in the beginning but were 2-8. Norm was awful early on if you don't remember as well. So we didn't get his scoring. Instead we got a lot of fumbling and bad basketball.

                Then we went on a pretty good streak. Beat some good teams. Played excellent Raptor ball and were rolling before all hell broke loose again. Even during that sort of good streak we had to overcome so bad play by the bench and Baynes. We didn't have that problem last year. Terrence Davis wasn't good. Flynn wasn't helping early. Our best bench player outside of Boucher was Watanabe? And then he got dunked on.

                Anyway once Covid happened it just went down hill. Lowry/Norm could not do enough to right the ship, although we had a close loss against Boston (who suck this year). When Pascal/Fred came back, you could see they were really off. Remember Fred had a 54 pt game this year. Rattled off more losses to really bad teams. Had one great win against Denver to say goodbye to Kyle and Norm. But then we again continued to crap the bed (although the Utah loss was irritating due to the foul discrepancy).

                And now we're here. Guys don't play hard.. and Nurse requires it. We just don't have the legs or energy. The games don't matter.. the whole season is a waste... and it's showing.

                I think a better center will just help us become a .500 team. Some better play from Pascal/Fred/OG will get us to a .600 team. And maybe we can get to the 5th or 6th seed.

                We are no where near contender status... but at least we should get back to a 2nd round exit team. That team was fun to watch and kind of hoping we get it back again next year.. and hope and pray this year was just one giant fluke of a year.
                I think playing hungover teams back in white vegas won't hurt either. Especially if we can play in front of a crowd.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Jclaw wrote: View Post
                  FWIW, here's my two cents. Do people describe what the Warriors did last year as tanking? Or was it taking advantage of a random number of events to get a good pick and get right back to where they were? Because that's more what we're doing. Come back next year with a post covid squad and any good draft pick we get this year is a bonus.
                  They had significant high end talent sitting on the IR while they tanked out of necessity.
                  We have all of our talent available to us.

                  Red Apples and Orange oranges comparison.

                  We're not tanking (yet), just not very good. When you sit lowry every 3rd game and sit OG on back to backs and sit Siakam due to mystery ailments ....you'll know

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    KeonClark wrote: View Post

                    We all assumed we were getting Phoenix Baynes. We got Rafael Aruajo.

                    We also assumed that Terrence Davis, and to a lesser extent Matt Thomas, Alex Len and Malachi Flynn, were going to contribute. That went 0 for 4. If those things had happened I'm guessing we'd be in 4th right now, as it's currently occupied by a .500ish Charlotte squad
                    Also hadn't foreseen that multiple weeks of h+s protocol sidelining coaches and half the core would drop the team from 4th (expected outcome) to the lottery (not expected) and functionally write off the season.
                    "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      planetmars wrote: View Post

                      Everyone has their own take. I really do think its Tampa/Covid and Masai/Bobby's lack of judgement in free agency or inability to pivot when Baynes shat the bed. It's all of that plus some regression.

                      A lot of basketball is flow and rhythm. A jazz concert so to speak.

                      It might sound like bull sh!t but there is some truth in it. Our flow is completely off.

                      We started off slowly. Bubble P never left. Baynes arrived. And we were readjusting to Tampa life with little practice time before the games started. We lost some close games in the beginning but were 2-8. Norm was awful early on if you don't remember as well. So we didn't get his scoring. Instead we got a lot of fumbling and bad basketball.

                      Then we went on a pretty good streak. Beat some good teams. Played excellent Raptor ball and were rolling before all hell broke loose again. Even during that sort of good streak we had to overcome so bad play by the bench and Baynes. We didn't have that problem last year. Terrence Davis wasn't good. Flynn wasn't helping early. Our best bench player outside of Boucher was Watanabe? And then he got dunked on.

                      Anyway once Covid happened it just went down hill. Lowry/Norm could not do enough to right the ship, although we had a close loss against Boston (who suck this year). When Pascal/Fred came back, you could see they were really off. Remember Fred had a 54 pt game this year. Rattled off more losses to really bad teams. Had one great win against Denver to say goodbye to Kyle and Norm. But then we again continued to crap the bed (although the Utah loss was irritating due to the foul discrepancy).

                      And now we're here. Guys don't play hard.. and Nurse requires it. We just don't have the legs or energy. The games don't matter.. the whole season is a waste... and it's showing.

                      I think a better center will just help us become a .500 team. Some better play from Pascal/Fred/OG will get us to a .600 team. And maybe we can get to the 5th or 6th seed.

                      We are no where near contender status... but at least we should get back to a 2nd round exit team. That team was fun to watch and kind of hoping we get it back again next year.. and hope and pray this year was just one giant fluke of a year.
                      I've seen enough good play from OG, Fred, and Siakam to not be worried about them moving forward. Also not worried about NN or management.

                      The season sucked. It is what it is. Lowry, summer cap space, and the lottery pick are huge variables for this offseason. This could still go several different directions from here. Ideally they have enough resources and flexibility to load up around OG/Fred/Siakam and move on from there. We'll see if they can pull that off.
                      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        G__Deane wrote: View Post

                        They had significant high end talent sitting on the IR while they tanked out of necessity.
                        We have all of our talent available to us.

                        Red Apples and Orange oranges comparison.

                        We're not tanking (yet), just not very good. When you sit lowry every 3rd game and sit OG on back to backs and sit Siakam due to mystery ailments ....you'll know
                        I would agree that we don’t have the same high end talent but I would disagree with “we have all our talent available to us”. Pascal didn’t say he had COVID but you don’t just lose 10-12 pounds by being off the roster for a couple of weeks. We gave him and Freddy a couple of games grace when they came back and now expect them to be themselves. I don’t think we’ll see the pre COVID Pascal and Freddy until next year.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Jclaw wrote: View Post

                          I would agree that we don’t have the same high end talent but I would disagree with “we have all our talent available to us”. Pascal didn’t say he had COVID but you don’t just lose 10-12 pounds by being off the roster for a couple of weeks. We gave him and Freddy a couple of games grace when they came back and now expect them to be themselves. I don’t think we’ll see the pre COVID Pascal and Freddy until next year.
                          I was just pointing out the difference in a tank where you have high high end talent injured all year and the team fares way worse than they would have with those players available. Big difference between that and having all your players available to you for most of the season but just not being at the top of their game for some of it.

                          Being without Lowry and OG all season still wouldn't quite equal their situation.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            MixxAOR wrote: View Post

                            so many posters that disappeared
                            That made me think. Mods aside, who is the veteran’s veteran here? I see planet m and I joined at the same time, July 2010. I guess we both had a lot to say after Bosh left for south beach.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              golden wrote: View Post

                              The irony is that the posters who were the most passionate about "championship or bust" never even showed up when we won the championship. lol.
                              I am still here don't worry will be here till I croak.. then I will be silent.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Kyle Lowry out 7-10 days with a toe infection? Lmao they're really doing this
                                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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