Everything 2021 Tank

[SkywalkerAC]

Question, do you watch Bulls games?

Watched some of the game last night. I didn't say they were good. They have some pieces, Markannen needs to man up.

Stacey King is a riot though.

[Primer]

Does MLSE stand to lose anything by the Raps not making the playoff this season? I'm talking significant revenue losses? Mentioned it when we started the season so poorly that there didn't seem to be any urgency to fix the major issues in the roster and they have continued in that same fashion. Not sure if the league is doing something to cover some of the revenue loses for not being able to play at home, but management has that demeanor of someone playing with house money.

Considering MLSE was getting money for attendance in Tampa and then decided it was better for the games to have no attendance shows how little they care about the attendance money. Limited capacity in Toronto they would have just jacked the prices to the moon to make up the difference and there are enough rich people in Toronto who would pay it, but being in Tampa the tickets have to be cheap to get any interest beyond the opposing teams fans. I think MLSE is on board with the tank so the team will be stronger next season and they can recoup the losses with super expensive ticket prices.

[inthepaint]

I think Markennen would be a great target for this team in the offseason. He's a classic PF, but is taller (7'0") and heavier than boucher. Could work really well as a modern stretch 5 (he's shooting 39% from deep this year). He's having a bit of an off year, and unlike what the Raptors did with OG, bulls didn't extend him and will let him hit restricted free agency. May be a good time to buy "lower". He's one those cases where you can see a breakout season as soon as leaves a losing organization to a stable winning team.

He's also just 23yrs old, would fit like glove with the new core of Flynn, Trent & OG, both in terms of age and position (our glaring need is C but we're thin at PF too, as the backup minutes there are going to Yuta , and OG backfilling between SF/PF)

[LJ2]

Considering MLSE was getting money for attendance in Tampa and then decided it was better for the games to have no attendance shows how little they care about the attendance money. Limited capacity in Toronto they would have just jacked the prices to the moon to make up the difference and there are enough rich people in Toronto who would pay it, but being in Tampa the tickets have to be cheap to get any interest beyond the opposing teams fans. I think MLSE is on board with the tank so the team will be stronger next season and they can recoup the losses with super expensive ticket prices.

Yeah, there is no urgency whatsoever to win this season. I can't say they are committed to tanking, but this half-hearted effort to rotate starters in an out of the line up for each game is getting the job done regardless. Likely won't be a top 5 pick, but its as good as you're going to get short of trading away the core.

I'd love to know which players their are targeting, or if they plan to move the pick in a package for an established player.

[golden]

In the off-season, we need to explore what we can get in trades for Pascal, FVV & Boucher and consider building around a younger Flynn/Trent/OG core.

Could Pascal net us a top 5 pick in this year's draft? Mars has suggested that Pascal has the same trade value as Bam or pre-injury Jamal Murray, both of whom I think could fetch a top 5. Of course it depends on who the team who gets the top 5 pick is, e.g. Warriors getting Minny's pick could be a fit.

What about Fred? Knicks are apparently looking for a PG in the off-season as a top priority and were supposedly lusting after Fred in free agency last year. Could FVV fetch the 2 FRPs that the Knicks own?

[KeonClark]

In the off-season, we need to explore what we can get in trades for Pascal, FVV & Boucher and consider building around a younger Flynn/Trent/OG core.

Could Pascal net us a top 5 pick in this year's draft? Mars has suggested that Pascal has the same trade value as Bam or pre-injury Jamal Murray, both of whom I think could fetch a top 5. Of course it depends on who the team who gets the top 5 pick is, e.g. Warriors getting Minny's pick could be a fit.

What about Fred? Knicks are apparently looking for a PG in the off-season as a top priority and were supposedly lusting after Fred in free agency last year. Could FVV fetch the 2 FRPs that the Knicks own?

The problem is, that's not a core, or even close to a core. That's like 2 and a half interesting pieces. Flynn is still only half interesting. Trent is just a microwave scorer, and OG is a 3 and D glue guy. That's not anything to build around, they are just as expendable as anyone else tbh.

[golden]

The problem is, that's not a core, or even close to a core. That's like 2 and a half interesting pieces. Flynn is still only half interesting. Trent is just a microwave scorer, and OG is a 3 and D glue guy. That's not anything to build around, they are just as expendable as anyone else tbh.

True. I was just trying to be optimistic. If we're selling then we should probably go full Process.

[Primer]

True. I was just trying to be optimistic. If we're selling then we should probably go full Process.

There's nothing wrong with having 27 year Olds and 22 year Olds on the court together. We don't need to dump Pascal or FVV because they're a few years older than OG, Flynn, and Trent. Lowry is 8 years older than Pascal and 12 years older than OG. He's the only one that doesn't fit age wise.

Dealing Pascal and Fred for picks would just mean we suck for the next 5 years+.

[golden]

There's nothing wrong with having 27 year Olds and 22 year Olds on the court together. We don't need to dump Pascal or FVV because they're a few years older than OG, Flynn, and Trent. Lowry is 8 years older than Pascal and 12 years older than OG. He's the only one that doesn't fit age wise.

Dealing Pascal and Fred for picks would just mean we suck for the next 5 years+.

I'd be okay with being bad for 5 years, if we're developing a legit young superstar during that timeframe. I can live off the championship glow for a while.

And sure, we might not completely suck with Pascal & FVV, but it's unlikely we'll be coming out of the East in the next 5 years either, unless a big trade happens or Trent exceeds all expectations.

[DanH]

I'd be okay with being bad for 5 years, if we're developing a legit young superstar during that timeframe. I can live off the championship glow for a while.

And sure, we might not completely suck with Pascal & FVV, but it's unlikely we'll be coming out of the East in the next 5 years either, unless a big trade happens or Trent exceeds all expectations.

I imagine the plan would be to try for a big trade whenever they have the chance. Teams that are one move away and have most of the team either early- or pre-prime, are not good candidates to tear down. In a few years when Pascal and FVV are getting close to expiring and getting close to 30, if they haven't been able to take advantage of that window, is when they may need to decide whether to tear down. As it is, only one win-driving guy on the team is post-prime.

[golden]

I imagine the plan would be to try for a big trade whenever they have the chance. Teams that are one move away and have most of the team either early- or pre-prime, are not good candidates to tear down. In a few years when Pascal and FVV are getting close to expiring and getting close to 30, if they haven't been able to take advantage of that window, is when they may need to decide whether to tear down. As it is, only one win-driving guy on the team is post-prime.

Fred signed a 3+1 deal, so Bobby really needs to think hard about trading him as early as next year, so that the team he's traded to would be getting at least 2 playoff runs out of him. That's a lot more value than 1 year, or less, which feels like a rental.

[KeonClark]

I'd be okay with being bad for 5 years, if we're developing a legit young superstar during that timeframe. I can live off the championship glow for a while.

And sure, we might not completely suck with Pascal & FVV, but it's unlikely we'll be coming out of the East in the next 5 years either, unless a big trade happens or Trent exceeds all expectations.

IF....thats a massive if. How many legit young superstars in the NBA? I'm not OK being bad 5 years lol. 5 years ago today, Obama was president, and we had never played Lebron James in the playoffs before. I'm not OK sucking that long.

[DanH]

Fred signed a 3+1 deal, so Bobby really needs to think hard about trading him as early as next year, so that the team he's traded to would be getting at least 2 playoff runs out of him. That's a lot more value than 1 year, or less, which feels like a rental.

Next year at the deadline would be the earliest point to have that discussion I would think. Becomes an easy discussion if the team isn't winning at that point too.

[Primer]

IF....thats a massive if. How many legit young superstars in the NBA? I'm not OK being bad 5 years lol. 5 years ago today, Obama was president, and we had never played Lebron James in the playoffs before. I'm not OK sucking that long.

This right here. I'd rather stick around the 5 seed in the East and be one trade away from a championship run then bet it all on some rookie being transcendent and getting us back to championship caliber.

For as great as Zion is, his team still sucks ass and won't make the playoffs in his 2nd year, and I don't see a title run anytime in their future. Most likely he takes his talents to LA or Miami after his rookie deal and wins the title for some other city. You just know that would happen to us if we got a player like that.

[golden]

This right here. I'd rather stick around the 5 seed in the East and be one trade away from a championship run then bet it all on some rookie being transcendent and getting us back to championship caliber.

For as great as Zion is, his team still sucks ass and won't make the playoffs in his 2nd year, and I don't see a title run anytime in their future. Most likely he takes his talents to LA or Miami after his rookie deal and wins the title for some other city. You just know that would happen to us if we got a player like that.

A rookie contract is 4 years and then we can re-sign him as an RFA for another 4 years, typically. If we have young superstar and we can't build a contender around him within 8 years, then he should leave.

That said, everybody keeps saying that our strength is drafting & developing, right? So, if we truly believe drafting & developing are our unique competitive advantages, then maybe we should double down on that by getting more picks at a higher draft position. If we can turn an undrafted and 27th pick into the 2 core franchise players of playoff team..... what could we do with a pile of top 10 or top 5 picks?