Everything 2021 Tank

[MixxAOR]

You can also consider that the Timberpups also had two of the least competitive "star" players in the NBA.
Andrew Wiggins and Karl Anthony Towns.
They were then and are now still zeros or less than zeros on the give a fuck meter at best....
They got shown up for this by Jimmy Butler about as subtly as a steelworkers strike. .
Butler then instructed his agent to get him out of there.
Towns cried and WIggins just robotically played on till Minny shipped him out.

Towns is still there and the reincarnation of Wiggins is Towns buddy D'Angelo Russell.
They are on their 2nd coach in two years post Thibs.
And they are in second in the 2021 Tankapolooza.
While its possible a new coach can improve this dog with fleas team that doesn't really compete... Its highly unlikely.
The players have to want to be better too.
Thibs has a lot more those types in NY and not so magically they are a better team than last year or the year before

Well I agree. KAT, Wiggins deserve the blame. Just like these NY players deserve praise for what they accomplished this year

[golden]

Minnesota improved by 18 wins under Thibs - they also got Butler that season. Then it all blew apart.

He & the Knicks deserve a lot of credit for a big defensive improvement. Jumped from #22 DRTG to #3 per BBR. Phoenix jumped from #17 to #5, Warriors jumped from #26 to #7, some of these swings just happen from year to year with all the variables (injuries, transactions, coaching), but cracking top 3 is obviously very good.

Thibs' defences are just sort of the defensive mirror of Budenholzer's offences. He's got systems and he's got guys going hard and they definitely max out their potential in the regular season. But the whole thing tends to not do too well in the playoffs and doesn't age well. Knicks still need some more talent on that roster before anyone sees them as a real threat.

I know it was really hard to choke those words out.... so kudos for kinda, sorta, back-handedly, partially manning up.

[MixxAOR]

i know it was really hard to choke those words out.... So kudos for kinda, sorta, back-handedly, partially manning up.

lol

[MixxAOR]

First yall wonder why our defense is bad without OG and use Thibs as example "Why he can run a good defense with scrubs" and then you call us "insecure" when we don't agree. And still didn't stop calling Knicks players scrubs. Come on man

[slaw]

I find much of the conventional wisdom about Thibodeau strange. He's a very good coach and the Knicks are lucky to have him. He is very good at developing young players and getting the most out of his starters. He has done a terrific job in NY. They need another wing alongside RJ cause Barrett has to do too much right now and they need to figure out if Quickley is their PG of the future. They have some talent gaps and some holes but they are on the right track and Thibs is the perfect coach for them right now.

[golden]

First yall wonder why our defense is bad without OG and use Thibs as example "Why he can make run a good defense with scrubs" and then you call us "insecure" when we don't agree. And still didn't stop calling Knicks players scrubs. Come on man

Coaches can have good and bad seasons, just like players. Sometimes you just have to tip your cap. Thibs is going to be in the top 5 for COY voting, so a lot of people will be agreeing with that sentiment. It would be disrespectful not to give him his props for the season they are having.

I wasn't the one to bring up OG, because tbh, our defense has also been bad at times when he's played. Double-teaming the ballhandler and giving up those career shooting nights to random scrubs is a risk-reward tradeoff that our system is designed to make and we got burned more this year by it. Like Dan said, it probably works better in the playoffs when scrubs get the yips.

[S.R.]

I know it was really hard to choke those words out.... so kudos for kinda, sorta, back-handedly, partially manning up.

That's...weird.

If you want to know my thoughts on Thibs outright, he's clearly an above average coach but he also doesn't have any kind of sustained success as a HC at all in the league, quite the opposite as he tends to flame out pretty quick. That's the context that tempers short term excitement. And I wouldn't want him coaching my team, he runs stars into the ground and runs himself out of town. I wouldn't want Bud, either. But both are a step up from the average NBA retread coach. There's a lot of coach recycling in the league that doesn't make much sense to me.


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[Demographic Shift]

Tonite on Who Wants it Less aka Tank Watch

Deetroit Basketball vs the Cavs Part Deux.... Do the Cavs have enough confidence in their ability to get to the top 5 with another win another against the Pistons ? Detroit is resting Grant, Plumlee, McGruder, Doumbouya, Ellington, Smith Jr. and the towel boy. It is a no shame league eh ?.

On a one game roll the Bulls head into Boston ... Kemba is on the limp again with that bum knee and both he and Smart are questionable. Can the Bulls with nothing to tank for steal one from what might be an undermanned Chowderhead squad ?

Veteran tomato cans OKC roll into visit the streaking Wizards. Someone is going to win this.

Go Cavs
Go Bulls.
Go Whiz

Hoping for the hat tonight.

[slaw]

That's...weird.

If you want to know my thoughts on Thibs outright, he's clearly an above average coach but he also doesn't have any kind of sustained success as a HC at all in the league, quite the opposite as he tends to flame out pretty quick. That's the context that tempers short term excitement. And I wouldn't want him coaching my team, he runs stars into the ground and runs himself out of town. I wouldn't want Bud, either. But both are a step up from the average NBA retread coach. There's a lot of coach recycling in the league that doesn't make much sense to me.


​​​

This is the conventional wisdom around Thibs I don't quite get. He was in Chicago for 5 years (longer than most NBA coaches) and had a lot of success despite Rose being hurt most of the time. He was only fired cause the incompetent front office duo of Forman and Paxson needed a fall guy (and they wanted to hire their Iowa buddy Hoiberg, which turned out great!). MInny was a disaster but that was a result of the coach/GM tag, which never works, and a bunch of other stuff.

No idea how long he lasts in NYC and maybe he's so difficult to deal with he can't last anywhere but I don't think that is necessarily true given the front offices he's clashed with were two of the worst in the NBA. It also assumes that he is incapable of adapting or learning at all from his past jobs.

[golden]

That's...weird.

If you want to know my thoughts on Thibs outright, he's clearly an above average coach but he also doesn't have any kind of sustained success as a HC at all in the league, quite the opposite as he tends to flame out pretty quick. That's the context that tempers short term excitement. And I wouldn't want him coaching my team, he runs stars into the ground and runs himself out of town. I wouldn't want Bud, either. But both are a step up from the average NBA retread coach. There's a lot of coach recycling in the league that doesn't make much sense to me.


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The thing is... Thibs didn't flame out in Chicago. You are mis-remembering. He coached 5 seasons and left in a season where he had .610 winning percentage. Sure, that pales in comparison to his first 2 seasons at a ridiculous 0.750+ winning clip, but .610 is hardly "flaming out". The reality is that Thibs was driven out because GarPax was lusting after Freddy Hoiberg.... the next great young coaching hope out of college, who they felt would be more modern and easier to work with. They tried to demonize Thibs on his way out to justify their ultimately disastrous coaching hire, which, in hindsight says more about GarPax than Thibs.

Speaking of running your stars into the ground: FVV & Pascal are in the top 8 in minutes/game this year. FVV/Lowry/Pascal were all in the top 11 MPG last year. Lowry & Kawhi were top 20 the year before. I don't see much difference there between Nurse and Thibs.

[MixxAOR]

The thing is... Thibs didn't flame out in Chicago. You are mis-remembering. He coached 5 seasons and left in a season where he had .610 winning percentage. Sure, that pales in comparison to his first 2 seasons at a ridiculous 0.750+ winning clip, but .610 is hardly "flaming out". The reality is that Thibs was driven out because GarPax was lusting after Freddy Hoiberg.... the next great young coaching hope out of college, who they felt would be more modern and easier to work with. They tried to demonize Thibs on his way out to justify their ultimately disastrous coaching hire, which, in hindsight says more about GarPax than Thibs.

Speaking of running your stars into the ground: FVV & Pascal are in the top 8 in minutes/game this year. FVV/Lowry/Pascal were all in the top 11 MPG last year. Lowry & Kawhi were top 20 the year before. I don't see much difference there between Nurse and Thibs.

Thibs destroyed Rose's career. As far as I know Nurse didn't do that to his players

[golden]

Thibs destroyed Rose's career. As far as I know Nurse didn't do that to his players

That's been analyzed to death and that's a false narrative. Rose doesn't see it that way either and that's the opinion that probably matters most.

[MixxAOR]

That's been analyzed to death and that's a false narrative. Rose doesn't see it that way either and that's the opinion that probably matters most.

Coach who has rep of running his players into the ground had nothing to do with his best player destroying his knee. Luol Deng and Joakim Noah were never the same after Thibs too

[golden]

Coach who has rep of running his players into the ground had nothing to do with his best player destroying his knee. Luol Deng and Joakim Noah were never the same after Thibs too

Those guys all rave about Thibs... even now.

[MixxAOR]

Those guys all rave about Thibs... even now.

doesn't change the fact that he shortened their careers

"Yeah, we've got f------ guys who can play," Butler adamantly told The Athletic. "We've got to instill confidence in everybody. I think my confidence is high enough. I want all my guys to be successful, man. I want all these guys to play. Is that a convo (with Thibodeau) that I've got to have? Yeah, and then everybody wants to talk about how the motherf-----'s not healthy [he said of himself]. Well God damn, we're playing 41, 43, 44 (minutes per game), it takes a toll on top of all the work that I do that don't nobody even see. We'll fix it. We'll do something. We'll talk."

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/j...-takes-a-toll/

"I mean, it was just a different time in the sports world period," he said. "Now we have the term load management. I don't think I would've taken it as far as Kawhi [Leonard] as far as like they're really being cautious about his injury or whatever he has. But if load management would've been around, who knows? I probably would've still been a Chicago Bull by now. But it wasn't around."

He can convince himself that load management wasnt around but reality is that if Thibs wasn't insane with minutes Rose wouldn't have had that injury