Game 51 - LA Lakers @ Toronto (Tampa) Raptors - Tuesday, April 6 @ 7:30PM EST

[Dvdvideo]

OG thought he was being grabbed first after he'd already been held down on the dunk attempt. where he got in trouble was when he used his second hand to life up. I repeat, he knew exactly what he was doing and it was unfortunately, obvious from the one angle.

He doesn't look mad at all? From the guy who's shown emotion in the NBA exactly once?

I knew you were going to say that about og, lol.
but it still doesn't explain why he tried to catch him. You can't know what he was thinking, he may have mistook the angle and was literally just trying to throw him off vs to the ground.

[DanH]

So, one could argue that Boucher is our second most impactful player (in context of his role) and clearly more impactful than OG.

One could argue both those things and could use impact measures to support that claim. One would likely be wrong but one could make the argument!

I do really like Boucher though. He's saved the team from itself a lot this year, though a lot of that (and the ensuing impact stats) is the guys he tends to play in place of.

[golden]

One could argue both those things and could use impact measures to support that claim. One would likely be wrong but one could make the argument!

I do really like Boucher though. He's saved the team from itself a lot this year, though a lot of that (and the ensuing impact stats) is the guys he tends to play in place of.

So the moral of the story when using impact stats is: proceed with caution. PIPM ain't easy.

[S.R.]

I knew you were going to say that about og, lol.
but it still doesn't explain why he tried to catch him. You can't know what he was thinking, he may have mistook the angle and was literally just trying to throw him off vs to the ground.

On the video, OG wasn't looking at Schroder at all when he grabbed his leg. OG was kind of getting tackled, he reached out and sort of grabbed the guy in retaliation, and stood up. I think that's all that happened. OG looked as surprised as anybody to all of a sudden see Schroder upside down and kind of tried to break his fall/help him up at the last second.

Should have been a non-issue. Schroder can go ahead and flip out, somebody just flipped him upside down like an empty salt shaker. Do a couple "Hold me backs!" and play on. It was surprising and unusual, but not really anything serious or dangerous. These guys aren't made of glass. The double ejections seemed excessive but this is the NBA in 2021.

[DanH]

So the moral of the story when using impact stats is: proceed with caution. PIPM ain't easy.

The moral of the story is when trying to make declarative statements based on any one thing, proceed with caution. Best to gather as much information as possible rather than rely on any one stat, and best be sure you are understanding every bit of information you gather and the context for it before being too confident in those statements.

Yes, including the many vaunted "catch-all" stats that exist these days.

[The Claw Reborn]

The moral of the story is that this team’s no.1 and no.2 option performed below standards and why where we are right now. Dont care if they lead the entire team or a teammate by 1 percentage point in one statistical data. Regression was evident, people should accept it.

everything else is just rhetoric and noise because a post and poster became more personal to them lol.

[JawsGT]

We've had, and have, maybe 5-6 decent players. And none of them play center, and none are top 15 players. Yeah, the results kinda make sense when you look at that. Nonetheless, if covid hadnt struck, the team might be looking at home court in the 1st round. Weird season...I think I've gained the opinion that I should not judge the team or any of its players based on anything that has or will happen this season. Lose more now and find Lowry a new home in the offseason and lets see what they can do next year.

[DanH]

The moral of the story is that this team’s no.1 and no.2 option performed below standards and why where we are right now. Dont care if they lead the entire team or a teammate by 1 percentage point in one statistical data. Regression was evident, people should accept it.

everything else is just rhetoric and noise because a post and poster became more personal to them lol.

Siakam has struggled this year overall it is true. And Fred has to develop further as a playmaker and finisher inside the arc (probably via midrange development), though he already made some significant improvements there this year.

But the team is not failing because of those two. There are clear depth issues and the lack of a starting centre that are blatantly obvious causes for the struggles.

[The Claw Reborn]

Siakam has struggled this year overall it is true. And Fred has to develop further as a playmaker and finisher inside the arc (probably via midrange development), though he already made some significant improvements there this year.

But the team is not failing because of those two. There are clear depth issues and the lack of a starting centre that are blatantly obvious causes for the struggles.

They are both are more than capable to win games during this season but their regression in comparison to their previous 2 seasons were significant especially the first set of games resulting to a 2-8 start.

I have already stated Siakam’s first 10 games impact

Van Vleet dismal start of the season was also significant

-18
-2
-15
+21
+3
-9
+5
+13
+2
-2

I agree it would have helped if they have a better supporting cast, yet Powell (significant improvement), Lowry, OG and Boucher are not bums either.

There is high variance of APM which I understand but Van Vleet had an increased role this season and so is Siakam. I also dont think the coaching scheme has change and certain match ups.

[DanH]

They are both are more than capable to win games during this season but their regression in comparison to their previous 2 seasons were significant especially the first set of games resulting to a 2-8 start.

I have already stated Siakam’s first 10 games impact

Van Vleet dismal start of the season was also significant

-18
-2
-15
+21
+3
-9
+5
+13
+2
-2

I agree it would have helped if they have a better supporting cast, yet Powell (significant improvement), Lowry, OG and Boucher are not bums either.

There is high variance of APM which I understand but Van Vleet had an increased role this season and so is Siakam. I also dont think the coaching scheme has change and certain match ups.

We. Don't. Have. A. Center.

We. Don't. Have. A. Bench.

Our best bench player was only useful if he started, our current best bench player is only a quasi-C and should really be starting because there is no one to play in front of him.

Those are the problems. Blaming this season on the guys who have actually been quite good is just so strange to me.

[The Claw Reborn]

We. Don't. Have. A. Center.

We. Don't. Have. A. Bench.

Our best bench player was only useful if he started, our current best bench player is only a quasi-C and should really be starting because there is no one to play in front of him.

Those are the problems. Blaming this season on the guys who have actually been quite good is just so strange to me.

Me Tarzan..D.O.N.T. BELIEVE Y.O.U.

and dont expect especially you to do so lol

so we can both agree to disagree

carry on

[TheWaterboy]

I finally remembered to post about this, and this game thread is the place to do it.

Because basketball isn't hockey, basketball referees can usually call the games based on the rules of play, and they can let the players play through a lot of things. There usually aren't situations analagous to hockey where it is wise for a hockey ref to make a discretionary call for something like boarding to help keep a chippy game under control even if under other circumstances playing through is the right call.

I didn't see this game, but my understanding is that this game was pretty chippy from the get-go, with the Lakers, as per Nurse's post-game scrum, really playing physical. It's understandable that players got ejected and suspended as a result of what eventually happened here... but if chippy, physical play isn't kept under control by the refs when the players aren't keeping the physical play under control themselves, you get situations like the Anunoby-Harrell situation happening as a result.

Note that I am not arguing against physical play; both Lebron, Kawhi, Kyle (to some extent) and a number of other all-star level players play a physical style of basketball, but they play that physical style of basketball under control. (Not to mention that it's somewhat a hallmark of Pat Riley's Heat teams to play "hard-nosed" physical basketball under control in the playoffs.) Letting two somewhat-desperate teams play physical basketball without an appropriate level of control being exerted by either the players or the refs until things boiled over like this was a terrible, terrible idea.

[G__Deane]

I finally remembered to post about this, and this game thread is the place to do it.

Because basketball isn't hockey, basketball referees can usually call the games based on the rules of play, and they can let the players play through a lot of things. There usually aren't situations analagous to hockey where it is wise for a hockey ref to make a discretionary call for something like boarding to help keep a chippy game under control even if under other circumstances playing through is the right call.

I didn't see this game, but my understanding is that this game was pretty chippy from the get-go, with the Lakers, as per Nurse's post-game scrum, really playing physical. It's understandable that players got ejected and suspended as a result of what eventually happened here... but if chippy, physical play isn't kept under control by the refs when the players aren't keeping the physical play under control themselves, you get situations like the Anunoby-Harrell situation happening as a result.

Note that I am not arguing against physical play; both Lebron, Kawhi, Kyle (to some extent) and a number of other all-star level players play a physical style of basketball, but they play that physical style of basketball under control. (Not to mention that it's somewhat a hallmark of Pat Riley's Heat teams to play "hard-nosed" physical basketball under control in the playoffs.) Letting two somewhat-desperate teams play physical basketball without an appropriate level of control being exerted by either the players or the refs until things boiled over like this was a terrible, terrible idea.

I had to read your post twice to be confirm you didn't see the game because you're are making some erroneous assumptions.

It wasn't a particularly chippy or hard nosed game and there was no "Anunoby-Harrell" situation; they were suspended for separate things. OG for flipping Schroder and Harrell for pushing GT Jr., Fred for stepping on the court to defend GT.

Where are the vast majority of ticky tack and purely wrong calls made, the NBA or NHL?
Hint, it's not even close and it has a B in it. Refs control outcomes in the NBA more than any other professional sport, period. There'd 5-10X as many "penalties" in an NBA game that controls both direct points but also momentum. Refs also with a history (limited as it was potentially) of rigging games.

And there's 1000% more evidence that that the NBA favours a chip winner (and stars team up) in major markets like LA and New York. You don't have that in the NHL where several of the biggest stars are in Edmonton, Pittsburgh and Washington and have been for years/decades.