GAME 54 - Toronto Raptors vs New York - April 11 2021 @ 8 PM EST

[golden]

Yeah this was a major egg he laid tonight but Siakam is averaging 21/7/4.5 on the season, with good defence. Because of the low efficiency, that's far from all-star, but also far from "bad player". The whole problem with Siakam is the artificially high expectations put on him after Kawhi left.

His usage is too high and he's not a closer/clutch player. He's an average nba starter. That's it. When I started seeing him that way, I stopped getting frustrated.

It's tough to see it that way because of the contract, but with 2 or 3 starter caliber rookie scale deals on this roster again, the salary sheet will be more balanced and this premium on his contract will be more easily digested. That's why it's important we tank properly and get a lottery pick this year.

This is what I predicted Pascal would become.... 2 years ago, just after Kawhi left:

Assuming no major injuries or changes to the roster, I could see Pascal as a 20/8/4 guy, but his efficiency could drop significantly. It's hard to picture him as a 26+ % USG first option type of guy with his current handles, 3-pt shot and lack of a consistent quick pullup/step-back jumper. It will require yet another unprecedented leap in growth.

Playing at ScotiaBank next season might get him a couple extra energy buckets, but it's on him to improve his overall skill level. People need to see it for what it is: Pascal started basketball late and we're paying him max money in the hope that his skill catches up with contract, because his salary makes roster construction difficult, as you pointed out.

[golden]

Pascal also double dribbled earlier in the game (2Q?) and got away with it.

[planetmars]

.... and that's not a max player either, unless we're talking Anthony Davis or Giannis level. Pascal is almost exactly like a less efficient Jerami Grant, with better playmaking. That's not a max player, or shouldn't be if you're managing your cap properly.

He is getting 28% of the max, not 30% or 35%. There is a difference. Giannis just scored a 35% max. Kawhi will get that too next year.

Pascal's contract basically prevented them from bringing back Serge.. and that was mostly because of his bonus (for getting all-nba second team). He's not a dead weight contract.. he's making what an elite second option player should make like Murray, Bam, or Fox.

And the cap is going up.. he got his max when the cap was at $109M. It'll be $112M next year and should go up from there. There is going to be a new media deal coming up.. that will have the cap go up even more. So max guys coming off their rookie deals will get even more in the future. Siakam may even look underpaid eventually.

Grant is doing better than Siakam this year. And that's a great deal for Detroit. They signed him when Grant was coming off as a 3rd or 4th option in Denver. And was still considered over paid in free agency. We got unlucky with Siakam. His MIP season came a season early.

Best contracts are elite level guys that are leaving their rookie contracts with question marks. That's how Curry and Lowry were so underpaid with their second contract.

[MixxAOR]

Problem isn’t his contract. It’s that he’s being asked to be a ball handling, playmaking guard and is really an athletic, finishing, skilled PF.

That double dribble is bad no matter what your contract is

[A.I]

Problem isn’t his contract. It’s that he’s being asked to be a ball handling, playmaking guard and is really an athletic, finishing, skilled PF.

On a brighter note, he is getting better at taking care of/handling the ball and playmaking. 4.6 assists and 2.1 turnovers this season compared to 3.5 assists and 2.5 turnovers last season.

[golden]

He is getting 28% of the max, not 30% or 35%. There is a difference. Giannis just scored a 35% max. Kawhi will get that too next year.

Pascal's contract basically prevented them from bringing back Serge.. and that was mostly because of his bonus (for getting all-nba second team). He's not a dead weight contract.. he's making what an elite second option player should make like Murray, Bam, or Fox.

And the cap is going up.. he got his max when the cap was at $109M. It'll be $112M next year and should go up from there. There is going to be a new media deal coming up.. that will have the cap go up even more. So max guys coming off their rookie deals will get even more in the future. Siakam may even look underpaid eventually.

Grant is doing better than Siakam this year. And that's a great deal for Detroit. They signed him when Grant was coming off as a 3rd or 4th option in Denver. And was still considered over paid in free agency. We got unlucky with Siakam. His MIP season came a season early.

Best contracts are elite level guys that are leaving their rookie contracts with question marks. That's how Curry and Lowry were so underpaid with their second contract.

Well, the acid test for contract value would be: what do you think Pascal would fetch in a trade? Do you think he nets us 4 FRPs? Does he get you a superstar, straight up? A rising star? Would be interesting to hear people's perspectives on his trade value.

[slaw]

.... and that's not a max player either, unless we're talking Anthony Davis or Giannis level. Pascal is almost exactly like a less efficient Jerami Grant, with better playmaking. That's not a max player, or shouldn't be if you're managing your cap properly.

The 'max salary' concept is a bit of a red herring. There is no objective standard for who should get those deals. It's circumstantial.

The question Is whether he is underperforming his contract? Maybe. In baseball, the dollars/production analysis is a lot simpler than it is in basketball which is more dynamic and where players are much more dependent on their teammates. Can he play better? Of course, we have all seen him play better but the circumstances surrounding him were much different. Pascal reminds me a bit of Tobias Harris. This year, the construction of their lineup has found Harris mostly as a nominal PF and he is, no coincidence, having his best year in Philly (and has been their second best player all year). Oddly, no one in Philly is complaining about his contract now, whereas, this past offseason they all wanted him gone.

Fundamentally, as I've said ad nauseum, Leonard left and they just made Siakam the new Leonard but that was never a role he could perform in over a full season, let alone multiple seasons. It was done out of necessity but now that 2021 is here and they have a chance to reset some things, adding legitimate firepower to move Pascal back into a more suitable role is a must (at least if they want to compete with the core of this roster). Do that, and his contract will look a lot better come 2022.

[MixxAOR]

Well, the acid test for contract value would be: what do you think Pascal would fetch in a trade? Do you think he nets us 4 FRPs? Does he get you a superstar, straight up? A rising star? Would be interesting to hear people's perspectives on his trade value.

All it took to get Kawhi was Derozan and Poeltl. So Pascal will be getting similar in trade. A known commodity and lottery pick guy with question marks.

[Jclaw]

What's really depressing about this season, reading such comments in non Raptors threads:

"Well at least we aren't the Raptors"

Masai and Bobby are laughing. Sure we look terrible now but I think half the people in the non Raptors threads would be glad to take a core of Fred/Trent/OG/Siakam, a likely upcoming top ten pick in a deep draft, a promising rookie in Flynn and either the cap space to resign Kyle or the room to trade/sign for a missing piece.

[Dvdvideo]

The only reason Pascal double dribbled is the new York player ran in the passing lane that he was about to pass to unexpectedly and he didn't want to turn it over. The way you guys talk about it is like he put up an airball with 5 seconds left wide open.

[The Claw Reborn]

Masai and Bobby are laughing. Sure we look terrible now but I think half the people in the non Raptors threads would be glad to take a core of Fred/Trent/OG/Siakam, a likely upcoming top ten pick in a deep draft, a promising rookie in Flynn and either the cap space to resign Kyle or the room to trade/sign for a missing piece.

Suppressing your frustrations to always look good to your forum comrades is commendable....

But sometimes, it won’t hurt to just say it as it is.....

[The Claw Reborn]

We dont have a bench, they are not sleeping on their own beds, Tampa is not home, we are in a pandemic, COVID affected Siakam’s lung perfusion....yada yada yada...lol

[The Claw Reborn]

Trade proposal still stand....

[Kagemusha]

The only reason Pascal double dribbled is the new York player ran in the passing lane that he was about to pass to unexpectedly and he didn't want to turn it over.

Exactly

[planetmars]

Well, the acid test for contract value would be: what do you think Pascal would fetch in a trade? Do you think he nets us 4 FRPs? Does he get you a superstar, straight up? A rising star? Would be interesting to hear people's perspectives on his trade value.

Market values fluctuate and depend on need. Is trading Pascal a sell move or a buy move? If buying, you could surely sell Pascal with a couple firsts and/or prospect like we got for Kawhi. The price will be higher now because of what Presti got for George.. most rebuilding teams want picks and lots and lots of them.

But when Harden was available, and Houston was sort of still trying, I'm sure we could have gotten him for Pascal and firsts if we wanted to. And I'm not sure that value has dropped after this year.

If selling, then I'm sure we could get at minimum what New Orleans got for Jrue Holiday. But again it depends on how desperate a team is. You can't go wrong with a 22/9 guy that can play good defense and has high character. He'll have as much value in trades as guys like Jaylen Brown, Jamal Murray, Brandon Ingram, or Bam Adebayo. Nobody there is a super star.. but they are all really good second options.