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  • DanH wrote: View Post

    Philly should certainly prefer Lowry over McCollum, but that is an interesting fit. The timing for Lowry is a downside, has to wait until after the draft, which is a huge window for these sorts of trades.
    Absolutely agree Kyle is a better fit for them.

    The timing that’s a bigger downside than the draft window to my mind is still, of course, Kyle’s age. I think if he obviously had a lot of good years left on him, Sixers make this move in a heartbeat. Their hesitation remains that it’s tough to send out a young piece for a guy in his waning years. Especially one like Kyle, who’s more of an intangibles star than a bonafide superstar. That, and as was said by someone else, they probably feel progressively more sheepish about having missed a better window for KLOE.

    They should still push to get him if they’re smart though. Kyle’s still got at least two more great years in him imo and they need to win now.

    We’ll see if the ‘Chris Paul Pull’ sways them…

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    • GOLDBLUM wrote: View Post

      Absolutely agree Kyle is a better fit for them.

      The timing that’s a bigger downside than the draft window to my mind is still, of course, Kyle’s age. I think if he obviously had a lot of good years left on him, Sixers make this move in a heartbeat. Their hesitation remains that it’s tough to send out a young piece for a guy in his waning years. Especially one like Kyle, who’s more of an intangibles star than a bonafide superstar. That, and as was said by someone else, they probably feel progressively more sheepish about having missed a better window for KLOE.

      They should still push to get him if they’re smart though. Kyle’s still got at least two more great years in him imo and they need to win now.

      We’ll see if the ‘Chris Paul Pull’ sways them…
      Yeah, this is why I think in a trade we'd be sending a couple other pieces, a Boucher (who should be useful for a bit) and a pick (though not a high value pick) just so they get a little future value back as well. Then they add Lowry without touching their other young core (Thybulle, Maxey), and can both go all in on winning now with Lowry (which they absolutely have to do, who knows how many more seasons like this Embiid will have) and keep their future mostly intact. This really all depends on them souring on Simmons in the first place, of course.
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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      • GOLDBLUM wrote: View Post

        Absolutely agree Kyle is a better fit for them.

        The timing that’s a bigger downside than the draft window to my mind is still, of course, Kyle’s age. I think if he obviously had a lot of good years left on him, Sixers make this move in a heartbeat. Their hesitation remains that it’s tough to send out a young piece for a guy in his waning years. Especially one like Kyle, who’s more of an intangibles star than a bonafide superstar. That, and as was said by someone else, they probably feel progressively more sheepish about having missed a better window for KLOE.

        They should still push to get him if they’re smart though. Kyle’s still got at least two more great years in him imo and they need to win now.

        We’ll see if the ‘Chris Paul Pull’ sways them…
        It's decision time for Philly. There's probably no other team with a more clear-cut line between rebuilding time and winning time. They've been rebuilding for 5+ years, got three top 3 picks, brought in their higher-end support players and shooters, and now they're one real point guard away from finals territory. That's it. Time to quit hemming and hawing and make the move.

        They've crossed into win-now but seem to be having a bit of a hard time weaning themselves off the "rebuild" phase. They don't need Maxey/Thybulle and a future first to win now, they need a Kyle Lowry floor general to unlock Embiid's game. If you want your final piece though, you may have to sacrifice some of your future pieces (or a good piece in your current core), it's what teams usually do to enter real contention.

        The fact their fanbase also soured on Simmons is also a perfect opportunity to break up that duo, which has always been a very poor fit, with a non-shooting Simmons shrinking the floor and clogging the paint for Embiid where he's most effective. The win-win-win scenario here is Lowry to Philly, Simmons to a third team that has good shooters but needs defence (Blazers?), and assets from this 3rd team here. Either that or bite the bullet and send a solid young prospect and picks here directly, but if they keep trying to have the cake and eat it too, their window (Embiid's prime and health) is gonna close.
        2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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        • inthepaint wrote: View Post

          It's decision time for Philly. There's probably no other team with a more clear-cut line between rebuilding time and winning time. They've been rebuilding for 5+ years, got three top 3 picks, brought in their higher-end support players and shooters, and now they're one real point guard away from finals territory. That's it. Time to quit hemming and hawing and make the move.

          They've crossed into win-now but seem to be having a bit of a hard time weaning themselves off the "rebuild" phase. They don't need Maxey/Thybulle and a future first to win now, they need a Kyle Lowry floor general to unlock Embiid's game. If you want your final piece though, you may have to sacrifice some of your future pieces (or a good piece in your current core), it's what teams usually do to enter real contention.

          The fact their fanbase also soured on Simmons is also a perfect opportunity to break up that duo, which has always been a very poor fit, with a non-shooting Simmons shrinking the floor and clogging the paint for Embiid where he's most effective. The win-win-win scenario here is Lowry to Philly, Simmons to a third team that has good shooters but needs defence (Blazers?), and assets from this 3rd team here. Either that or bite the bullet and send a solid young prospect and picks here directly, but if they keep trying to have the cake and eat it too, their window (Embiid's prime and health) is gonna close.
          They stopped the rebuild as soon as Brand came in. That's when they traded for Butler. Had Redick on the roster as well. That team was 4 bounces away from an O/T and heading to Milwaukee in the ECF.

          When they lost Butler and signed Horford it wasn't a rebuild either.. just a bad retool.. but Horford was definitely not a young piece they acquired.

          Then this year they traded Horford for basically Danny Green. Another vet.

          The Lowry non-trade had more to do with them not liking Lowry as much as we think they should. Maybe they just didn't like bringing in a 35 year old PG and having to swap multiple depth pieces to bring him in? They still went with another vet in George Hill at the deadline though.

          As for breaking up the duo.. that's what most teams struggle to do. How long was it before we traded DeMar? We gave him and Lowry like 3-4 years to figure it out. Will Portland go another year with the CJ+Dame back court? How long do Gobert and Mitchell last? Or Jokic and Murray?

          I think it's about time they split Embiid and Ben up as well.. but it won't be an easy decision for them even if we fans think it's time. Masai kept his core together after getting man handled by Lebron over and over again. That third time though was the charm I guess.

          Comment


          • inthepaint wrote: View Post

            It's decision time for Philly. There's probably no other team with a more clear-cut line between rebuilding time and winning time. They've been rebuilding for 5+ years, got three top 3 picks, brought in their higher-end support players and shooters, and now they're one real point guard away from finals territory. That's it. Time to quit hemming and hawing and make the move.

            They've crossed into win-now but seem to be having a bit of a hard time weaning themselves off the "rebuild" phase. They don't need Maxey/Thybulle and a future first to win now, they need a Kyle Lowry floor general to unlock Embiid's game. If you want your final piece though, you may have to sacrifice some of your future pieces (or a good piece in your current core), it's what teams usually do to enter real contention.

            The fact their fanbase also soured on Simmons is also a perfect opportunity to break up that duo, which has always been a very poor fit, with a non-shooting Simmons shrinking the floor and clogging the paint for Embiid where he's most effective. The win-win-win scenario here is Lowry to Philly, Simmons to a third team that has good shooters but needs defence (Blazers?), and assets from this 3rd team here. Either that or bite the bullet and send a solid young prospect and picks here directly, but if they keep trying to have the cake and eat it too, their window (Embiid's prime and health) is gonna close.
            Philly stopped rebuilding three years ago when they went for it trading for Butler and Harris mid-season. The problem in Philly hasn't been fence-sitting, it's been the fact that the best players aren't reliable in the playoffs. You can also question some of their personnel moves (letting Redick go, signing Horford).

            Philly needs to address the issues with Harris and Simmons in order to win. Lowry alone doesn't solve their fundamental problem.

            EDIT: planetmars beat me to it....

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            • Lowry + Boucher + 2nd for Simmons. Let's go.
              Mamba Mentality

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              • slaw wrote: View Post

                Philly stopped rebuilding three years ago when they went for it trading for Butler and Harris mid-season. The problem in Philly hasn't been fence-sitting, it's been the fact that the best players aren't reliable in the playoffs. You can also question some of their personnel moves (letting Redick go, signing Horford).

                Philly needs to address the issues with Harris and Simmons in order to win. Lowry alone doesn't solve their fundamental problem.

                EDIT: planetmars beat me to it....
                When they lost Butler, they lost their late game closer and never replaced that skill. That really should have been Simmons by now, but he’s become a 4th quarter meme. Like you said, Lowry doesn’t solve that problem either.

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                • The Great One wrote: View Post
                  Lowry + Boucher + 2nd for Simmons. Let's go.
                  I think I might be ok with this......Lowry likely gone anyhow, so really it's just losing boucher and gaining a bug salary. If we can draft at center, this would be a very good team on the floor. (Assuming you can at least convince Simmons to shoot sometimes)

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                  • Simmons is a good player on the right team, but how would the Raptors be able to overcome that lack of shooting? It seems to be a really big hurdle for anyone trading for him. Defense would be amazing though.

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                    • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                      Simmons is a good player on the right team, but how would the Raptors be able to overcome that lack of shooting? It seems to be a really big hurdle for anyone trading for him. Defense would be amazing though.
                      These questions are real concerns, and probably the only reason a) he's being traded and b) his trade price will be low enough for the Raptors to even hypothetically be in the discussion, considering they certainly wouldn't want to trade one of the core three or their lotto pick for him.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • DanH wrote: View Post

                        These questions are real concerns, and probably the only reason a) he's being traded and b) his trade price will be low enough for the Raptors to even hypothetically be in the discussion, considering they certainly wouldn't want to trade one of the core three or their lotto pick for him.
                        I don't think Philly is THAT low on him that they wouldn't demand a star player coming back.. No way they are going to rebuild during Embiid's peak years.

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                        • The Great One wrote: View Post
                          Lowry + Boucher + 2nd for Simmons. Let's go.
                          Isn't that too much?
                          Kyle for BS straight up.

                          Then we move BS to center position.

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                          • Kagemusha wrote: View Post
                            ...Then we move BS to center position.
                            Sell him on playing a Marc Gasol role while he works on his shooting range with competent coaches. No reason someone can't improve their shooting unless they have a genetic abnormality, physical or mental. And even then their are thousands of examples of athletes facing many different kinds of disabilities who succeed beyond all expectation. Sell Simmons on the Raptors as being the team that will finally give him the opportunity to be the kind of basketball player he was meant to be. They resurrected Kyle, Kawhi and have a history of turning late round picks or even undrafted players into big time contributors. Next up is Simmons.

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                            • LJ2 wrote: View Post

                              I don't think Philly is THAT low on him that they wouldn't demand a star player coming back.. No way they are going to rebuild during Embiid's peak years.
                              Then they won't be able to move him. There's no team out there giving up a star player for a floor shrinking "point guard" who never passed the 2nd round, doesn't want to play PF/C, and is eating 35M of your cap (going up to 40M in the next 2 years). I'd peg Simmons value right now similar to Butler's or Lowry's: a prospect & pick with the required salary filler.
                              2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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                              • inthepaint wrote: View Post
                                ... I'd peg Simmons value right now similar to Butler's or Lowry's: a prospect & pick with the required salary filler.
                                The trading team would have to be absolutely convinced they can reclaim him for Simmons to reach Butler or Lowry value level.

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