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'21-'22 Roster Construction

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  • KeonClark wrote: View Post
    Everybody's talking about is Barnes here to replace Pascal etc, what if the actual 2 to 3 year plan here is to turn Barnes into the point guard not unlike Simmons, and have Fred 2 OG 3 Pascal 4. His IG bio reads: "6'9 PG", so we know what his goal is.
    I'm picturing they will use Barnes more like they did Gasol on offense. Barnes will get the ball at the top of the key so FVV can spot up along with Trent which should spread the floor. Then Barnes gets to survey the defense and find cutters, set screens or take his man off the dribble. I think he plays some C at some point.

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    • KeonClark wrote: View Post
      Everybody's talking about is Barnes here to replace Pascal etc, what if the actual 2 to 3 year plan here is to turn Barnes into the point guard not unlike Simmons, and have Fred 2 OG 3 Pascal 4. His IG bio reads: "6'9 PG", so we know what his goal is.
      Yeah I dont buy it. I dont think people realize that last year a goal was to shift away from a reliance on the center position. A key tenet of our defense is an ability to defend the paint and close out to shooters, to do that we need as many of the guys in the Siakam, OG, Barnes mold as possible. All the guys we drafted fit that profile. Obviously you still need a legit big, especially over the regular season - last season we just picked the wrong guy… Id be surprised if we spent big money on a legit center this year.

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      • Something that is very exciting is we could have so many guys who intiante to offense. FVV, Pascal, Scottie and O.G if he improves his handle some more.
        It open up alot, even if your running the same action depending on which of the 4 are handling the ball it give a whole new look with each guy and a different area D have to cover.
        To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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        • bertarapsfan wrote: View Post
          Something that is very exciting is we could have so many guys who intiante to offense. FVV, Pascal, Scottie and O.G if he improves his handle some more.
          It open up alot, even if your running the same action depending on which of the 4 are handling the ball it give a whole new look with each guy and a different area D have to cover.
          Don't forget Malachi. But yeah, great point.

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          • Lowry for 3 years, 75M$ would y'all do it? I think I would. Our roster would be well balanced.

            Birch/Boucher/Gillespie
            Siakam/Barnes
            Anunoby/Watanabe/Bembry
            VanVleet/Trent Jr.
            Lowry/Flynn/Rookie PG

            A lot of starting 5 options depending on matchups.

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            • TomAmnot wrote: View Post
              Lowry for 3 years, 75M$ would y'all do it? I think I would. Our roster would be well balanced.

              Birch/Boucher/Gillespie
              Siakam/Barnes
              Anunoby/Watanabe/Bembry
              VanVleet/Trent Jr.
              Lowry/Flynn/Rookie PG

              A lot of starting 5 options depending on matchups.
              I would, but I'd rather go 2 years, if it needs to go closer to 30 mil per then so be it. I'm betting he's got 2 years left as a very good starter in the NBA, and its a good amount of time to mentor Malachi and Barnes to the floor general stuff.
              It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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              • TomAmnot wrote: View Post
                Lowry for 3 years, 75M$ would y'all do it? I think I would. Our roster would be well balanced.

                Birch/Boucher/Gillespie
                Siakam/Barnes
                Anunoby/Watanabe/Bembry
                VanVleet/Trent Jr.
                Lowry/Flynn/Rookie PG

                A lot of starting 5 options depending on matchups.
                I think we gotta cash in and go full youth movement. It would be nice to have lowry around for 1 more year to help mentor these young guys (Hopefully enough has rubbed off on FVV to be that guy). But we gotta get something for him and start looking towards the future.
                To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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                • He wants 3 years / $90M.. and I think the Pelicans give him that. Would he come back to Toronto for $15M less? The fact that we've looked at Simmons, Ball and Dinwiddie makes me think we are moving on from Lowry.

                  I'd love him back though. Don't care that he's older.. he just makes everyone around him better.

                  We can use the MLE to find a center. Maybe Olynyk would come to Toronto for it.

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                  • bertarapsfan wrote: View Post

                    I think we gotta cash in and go full youth movement. It would be nice to have lowry around for 1 more year to help mentor these young guys (Hopefully enough has rubbed off on FVV to be that guy). But we gotta get something for him and start looking towards the future.
                    Yeah I think agree here. We have to wait to see what comes out after Lowry's free agency but the team is still basically the same as last year

                    Birch/Boucher/Gillespie
                    Siakam/Barnes
                    Anunoby/Watanabe/Bembry
                    VanVleet/Trent Jr.
                    Lowry/Flynn/Rookie PG

                    Barnes was by design a high ceiling choice to peak later, so that's basically the same team that missed the playoffs last year. We'll be a bit better this year with Birch plus playing at home, but that's still threading water. So yeah, get younger by trying to cash in Lowry for someone like Lonzo, Collins or Markkenen (either through SnT or RFA) and let the kids develop together. That's the direction the Norm for Trent trade pointed to as well.
                    2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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                    • planetmars wrote: View Post
                      He wants 3 years / $90M.. and I think the Pelicans give him that. Would he come back to Toronto for $15M less? The fact that we've looked at Simmons, Ball and Dinwiddie makes me think we are moving on from Lowry.

                      I'd love him back though. Don't care that he's older.. he just makes everyone around him better.

                      We can use the MLE to find a center. Maybe Olynyk would come to Toronto for it.
                      MLE is probably for Birch and if we want a three year contract for if we sign our 2nd rounders or a UDFA to NBA contracts.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • I'd like Lowry back now but not at 3 years $90M. If that's the price tag do the S&T with the Pelicans and take back Ball. He fits way better age wise and fits better next to FVV. If we want to get anything back for Lowry it seems like now or never. Can't see us moving him during the season if we're headed for the playoffs.

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                        • Primer wrote: View Post
                          I'd like Lowry back now but not at 3 years $90M. If that's the price tag do the S&T with the Pelicans and take back Ball. He fits way better age wise and fits better next to FVV. If we want to get anything back for Lowry it seems like now or never. Can't see us moving him during the season if we're headed for the playoffs.
                          idk, I think FVV at SG permanently is 100% handicapping the ceiling for the offense. Can't even think of another 6'1 shooting guard in the league.

                          Wasn't the original plan to run the Offense through FVV once Lowry was finished here?

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                          • c-troop wrote: View Post

                            idk, I think FVV at SG permanently is 100% handicapping the ceiling for the offense. Can't even think of another 6'1 shooting guard in the league.

                            Wasn't the original plan to run the Offense through FVV once Lowry was finished here?
                            This is a debate that has been had many times here, and it's a good one. To me what differentiates a point guard from a shooting guard is the specific area of strength/expertise, more so than height.

                            --Point Guards see the whole floor and are best at creating spaces for others in the overall offence, through pick and rolls and other screen usages.
                            --Shooting Guards are better at pure shooting, and driving to the basket looking for their own bucket (then finding the open man if needed).

                            Fred is a Shooting Guard. He's best at looking for his own bucket and shooting well from long range. He s not the most effective at running pick and rolls, threading the needle and finding open bigs on pick and rolls.

                            It is true that he is short for a classic SG, but in today's positionless game, what matters most isoverall length of your backcourt. It's okay to have a short player if they bring the kind of shooting and defence Fred brings, but you gotta pair him with a taller PG if that's the case, otherwise the team will collectively struggle to find space against certain defences, like we've seen when he's with Lowry in the playoffs when things get tighter.

                            That's why I also agree Lonzo is the perfect target here. It will allow Fred to let go of PG duties which he's not great at, and our overall backcourt would still have the length and playmaking needed to create space offensively. Scottie can also bring that in time as a PG, as he's already a great passer.

                            To balance the roster, we've gotta "flip" Lowry into either a long PG (eg. Lonzo), or a Centre, depending on which position the team sees Scottie playing in the long run. We drafted what we deemed the best player available. Next step is to balance the positions via a Lowry SnT.
                            2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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                            • inthepaint wrote: View Post

                              This is a debate that has been had many times here, and it's a good one. To me what differentiates a point guard from a shooting guard is the specific area of strength/expertise, more so than height.

                              --Point Guards see the whole floor and are best at creating spaces for others in the overall offence, through pick and rolls and other screen usages.
                              --Shooting Guards are better at pure shooting, and driving to the basket looking for their own bucket (then finding the open man if needed).
                              .
                              I will take note of your assessment and respect your opinion. I would like to add two counterpoints though:

                              1. FVV averages more than 6 assists per game, which is hardly common for a pure SG, especially ones that can shoot the 3.

                              2. If we play teams with bigger guards, like the Bucks, and FVV is off-ball he will be invisible.

                              My narrow-minded perspective tells me he either gets better at running pick and rolls and more accurate with passing as well as the team getting an actual big who excels at pick and rolls to help him with this weakness he has.

                              Or they replace him while his value is high.

                              Makes no sense to duplicate last season just to get him locked down by Kris Middleton in the playoffs while he's waiting for passes in the corner.

                              Personally, I think with Gary Trent here it shows that management is leaning more towards giving him the keys to the offense. Then again we did just draft Scottie Barnes.


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                              • Could a three team deal be possible with the Sixers and Warriors?

                                Simmons going to the Warriors

                                Lowry S/T to the Sixers

                                Wiseman/ Wiggins/ Kuminga/ Moody to the Raptors

                                I am not sure if this is doable

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