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'21-'22 Roster Construction

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  • Hotshot wrote: View Post
    ...At best he will probably be the 3rd best forward defender behind OG & Siakam this season.
    And that would be something to write home about. Both Siakim and OG are very, very good. Being able to throw 3 defenders of that quality out there, with a minute or two left in the game and a 5 point lead could buy 3 or 4 extra wins over the course of a season. That could impact who your first round opponent is in the playoffs. Assuming he can guard without fouling (which I expect him to learn very quickly).

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    • DanH wrote: View Post
      As much as I like the idea of Barnes with the starters longer term, I agree that aside from the early season potential to fill the Siakam gap, he likely is stuck coming off the bench this year.

      Now, closing games is another story. If he achieves that status in year one, that would be really impressive, regardless of whether Trent's payday or Birch's size keep them in the nominal starting positions. The shooting will be the big hurdle there.
      this is it right there. If he is starting then it says a lot about the strides he makes developmentally. I think defensively though it is too early to say he is x level defender until we see it at the next level. I think he will not be a minus defender but I don't see him being better than OG or Siakam in year one. He is a rookie at the end of the day and you are talking about elite all defensive level guys or close to it.

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      • If barnes primarily guards the perimeter, I think his defence will surprise most. One of the reasons I like that second unit of flynn,dragic, barnes, bouchet and precious. You can hide dragic on whomever you like, and let barnes guard the opposing teams best player at whatever position that may be. If its a guard, all the better, the lead ball handler, even better again. He will force teams to abandon their planned offence early on in the shot clock, like OG often did last year. And he would be able to provide exceptional help to bouch and precious if necessary. And of course, he could be a great roamer and helper if used that way. Maybe he doesnt need to guard one of the best on the floor, let him go free and guard where ever the threat is play to play. His intensity, length and quickness is very exciting however they decide to let him loose. He will be a huge factor defensively, and I'm pumped to see him guard ball handlers.

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        • JawsGT wrote: View Post
          If barnes primarily guards the perimeter, I think his defence will surprise most. One of the reasons I like that second unit of flynn,dragic, barnes, bouchet and precious. You can hide dragic on whomever you like, and let barnes guard the opposing teams best player at whatever position that may be. If its a guard, all the better, the lead ball handler, even better again. He will force teams to abandon their planned offence early on in the shot clock, like OG often did last year. And he would be able to provide exceptional help to bouch and precious if necessary. And of course, he could be a great roamer and helper if used that way. Maybe he doesnt need to guard one of the best on the floor, let him go free and guard where ever the threat is play to play. His intensity, length and quickness is very exciting however they decide to let him loose. He will be a huge factor defensively, and I'm pumped to see him guard ball handlers.
          Another factor in that defensive decision with the bench unit is this: as much as they can run ten deep, I'm still pretty sure we'll see a lot of bench units supported by one of FVV or Pascal. And those two are different defensive players - Pascal is a free safety, Fred is a point of attack guy. So depending on which anchor is babysitting the bench at the time, Barnes can slide into the other role.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • JawsGT wrote: View Post
            If barnes primarily guards the perimeter, I think his defence will surprise most. One of the reasons I like that second unit of flynn,dragic, barnes, bouchet and precious. You can hide dragic on whomever you like, and let barnes guard the opposing teams best player at whatever position that may be. If its a guard, all the better, the lead ball handler, even better again. He will force teams to abandon their planned offence early on in the shot clock, like OG often did last year. And he would be able to provide exceptional help to bouch and precious if necessary. And of course, he could be a great roamer and helper if used that way. Maybe he doesnt need to guard one of the best on the floor, let him go free and guard where ever the threat is play to play. His intensity, length and quickness is very exciting however they decide to let him loose. He will be a huge factor defensively, and I'm pumped to see him guard ball handlers.
            That’s a terrible second unit. Forgive me if I come off harsh but shift line ups don’t work we had 1 maybe to seasons of shift line ups and now it’s a thing. Best 7-8 man line up and that’s it, I said it when we drafted Flynn he is not guarding anyone then you want to pair dragic with that. Your asking the other 3 player to be supermen.

            too much emphasis is put on scoring Barnes is a starter he also needs to put up shots. Good shots, open shots but he needs to play with the starters.

            I personally don’t want to see Flynn play I seen enough I am out. Maybe last 2 mins before the end of half.

            barnes Fred
            barnes Trent
            fred Trent
            barnes svi
            fred svi
            barnes dragic
            fred dragic


            that’s the only guard line ups that needs to play,

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            • DanH wrote: View Post

              I think I've made my stance clear, no? FVV made a leap in playmaking such that he was fine as a PG last year, though his ideal usage is still primarily off the ball (offensively), which still fits great on this team with Siakam making a playmaking leap last year and Barnes coming in as a playmaking forward as well.

              Fred indeed graded out as one of the highest impact guards in the NBA last year playing beside Lowry in a sort of timeshare of the PG/SG duties. He obviously has plenty of room for improvement, but there's no long jam where he is blocking some other player from moving into a lineup because there's not enough ball to go around - Fred is serviceable on the ball and great off the ball on offence, while he's great defensively regardless, so you are getting a positive impact guy whatever role he fits best into in any given lineup.
              Haha…..you seem to iron out the little details but I don’t think I am having protein plaques causing dementia to forget how Adamant you were not so long ago stating that Fred Van Vleet is a Shooting Guard.

              Now you are saying he was fine as a Point Guard, lol.

              To accommodate your most recent point of view….you are now tooting that Barnes can start off the bench.

              You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

              When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


              Comment


              • Player Comparison: Fred VanVleet vs. J.J. Barea

                https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_..._id2=bareajo01


                eerily same numbers with almost same height and on court personality

                how about those playoff stats lol

                I bet Mark Cuban would die to get Van Vleet playing alongside Doncic

                lets make a Shark Tank deal with Cuban 🤣

                MOSES BROWN, PROZINGIS, BURKE AND BRONSON

                for

                VAN VLEET, BOUCHER AND DRAGIC

                Last edited by The Claw Reborn; Sat Sep 25, 2021, 07:57 PM.
                You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

                When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


                Comment


                • Barnes
                  GTJ
                  OG
                  Siakam
                  Porzingis

                  bench:
                  Flynn
                  Burke
                  Brunson
                  Watanabe
                  Achiuwa
                  Birch
                  Moses Brown - forgot to add lol and the rest of the bench warmers (Svi…etc)


                  That’s is a legitimate wingspan starting five and energy laden bench brigade

                  p.s.

                  That big rotation of Porzingis, Birch, Brown and Achiuwa…

                  Raptors can load Manage Porzingis like what they have done with Kawhi all season to preserve his frail body when the playoffs starts

                  if they don’t make the playoffs…perfectly fine, Scottie can get all his exposure as a Point Guard for 82 games … his development is the most important thing

                  and NOT COMING OFF THE BENCH behind Van Vleet, goodness gracious lol ..the no.4 pick tank season product coming off the bench LMAO
                  Last edited by The Claw Reborn; Sat Sep 25, 2021, 08:15 PM.
                  You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

                  When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


                  Comment


                  • I don' mind trading with the mavs but vanvleet needs to stay out of it as does Mr injured porzingus......he's no kawai and not worth load managing. I do like your idea of scottie getting lots of playing time/ball handling time, you could do that with vanvleet off ball as a shooter.

                    Comment


                    • The most asinine rebuttal

                      You don’t change the oil of the Toyota because it’s not a Ferrari lol
                      You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

                      When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


                      Comment


                      • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post
                        The most asinine rebuttal

                        You don’t change the oil of the Toyota because it’s not a Ferrari lol
                        Did you not get any sleep last night or something? Mr. Grumpypants. It's OK you know for other people to disagree with you......

                        Comment


                        • One last thing I want to say about Barnes starting, this kid could be the future of the franchise you don’t want to start off by disrespecting the kid he was drafted 4th overall. Our core now probably will not be the same core in 8 years

                          Comment


                          • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

                            Haha…..you seem to iron out the little details but I don’t think I am having protein plaques causing dementia to forget how Adamant you were not so long ago stating that Fred Van Vleet is a Shooting Guard.

                            Now you are saying he was fine as a Point Guard, lol.

                            To accommodate your most recent point of view….you are now tooting that Barnes can start off the bench.
                            Fred made a leap as a playmaker last season. What is so hard to understand about that? Should I never change my opinion of a player's game even if their game develops?

                            He's still better suited off the ball, but he's way better than he was - which was the point of the approach the Raptors took with him. They played him outside his strengths to expand his game, like they did with Pascal (high usage iso creation instead of mid usage finisher), OG (increased ball handling of late rather than 3+D), etc. It has hurt them on the court but helped those players develop their games. Always a tricky balance for a team.

                            My commentary tends to always focus on winning a single game, so I wanted Fred off ball for that reason - Lowry was a much better creator (still is) and Fred is incredible moving to open space off the ball. But the Raptors are stronger now for having taken a longer view the past couple seasons, and have the option of playing Fred as a PG and not completely sinking their chances, unlike before.
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • Oof, Claw, nevermind, just saw your Porzingis post. No sense debating, we are worlds apart. Good luck with all that.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

                              Comment


                              • grindhouse wrote: View Post
                                One last thing I want to say about Barnes starting, this kid could be the future of the franchise you don’t want to start off by disrespecting the kid he was drafted 4th overall. Our core now probably will not be the same core in 8 years
                                Barnes came off the bench in college. Literally was not a starter at FSU but we'd be disrespecting him by also bringing him off the bench? Come on man that's nonsense. Raw players come off the bench while they develop, it's normal even for high picks.

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