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'21-'22 Roster Construction

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  • grindhouse wrote: View Post
    ...OG and Fred are talented boarder line defensive team all star players but my eyes don’t see a fit style wise.

    I would rather get banton, Barnes,Yuta, pascal out there together and grow then watch our vets lead us into a lottery pick.

    we have the assets to go get a Myles turner or (insert rim protector). And yes I am saying this after 2 preseason games cause I already know how Fred and OG play
    Couple of things. First, you don't know how OG and Fred play THIS SEASON. Because you haven't seen them play this season in regular season games. You've seen the scrambled eggs version of the Raptors so far, not the eggs Benedict version. Second, Fred and OG do what they do well at such a high level you have other players adjust themselves to suit Fred and OG's style, not the other way around. Success in almost any environment occurs when you maximize your strengths, not spend energy at trying to improve your weaknesses at the expense of your strengths. That's just the way it is.

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    • Puffer wrote: View Post

      Couple of things. First, you don't know how OG and Fred play THIS SEASON. Because you haven't seen them play this season in regular season games. You've seen the scrambled eggs version of the Raptors so far, not the eggs Benedict version. Second, Fred and OG do what they do well at such a high level you have other players adjust themselves to suit Fred and OG's style, not the other way around. Success in almost any environment occurs when you maximize your strengths, not spend energy at trying to improve your weaknesses at the expense of your strengths. That's just the way it is.
      Their strengths are not good enough to carry us to a championship. The only reason everyone is rallying behind them is cause that’s all we got. But if your being real with yourself when you look at them your basketball eye should say that’s not it.

      a trade may not come by mid season or end of season but when this team gets back to the finals those 2 guys will not be on it. I would bet money on that. The only purpose they have is to teach the young guys the offence and how to be pros.

      I feel like I am having the same argument when we had derozan till we traded him and won a championship. I know what I am watching but whatever
      Last edited by grindhouse; Sat Oct 9, 2021, 03:55 AM.

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      • grindhouse wrote: View Post

        Their strengths are not good enough to carry us to a championship. The only reason everyone is rallying behind them is cause that’s all we got. But if your being real with yourself when you look at them your basketball eye should say that’s not it.

        a trade may not come by mid season or end of season but when this team gets back to the finals those 2 guys will not be on it. I would bet money on that. The only purpose they have is to teach the young guys the offence and how to be pros.

        I feel like I am having the same argument when we had derozan till we traded him and won a championship. I know what I am watching but whatever
        Were FVV and OG not on the roster, like, the last time we won a championship?
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • grindhouse wrote: View Post

          Their strengths are not good enough to carry us to a championship. The only reason everyone is rallying behind them is cause that’s all we got. But if your being real with yourself when you look at them your basketball eye should say that’s not it.

          a trade may not come by mid season or end of season but when this team gets back to the finals those 2 guys will not be on it. I would bet money on that. The only purpose they have is to teach the young guys the offence and how to be pros.

          I feel like I am having the same argument when we had derozan till we traded him and won a championship. I know what I am watching but whatever
          Like shooting threes and defending? like I don't know what kind of team you think they are building.
          Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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          • Hm, I’m not entirely sure on Fred and OG not being on the team for reasons stated above BUT depending on how married to the whole position-less 5 skilled players who can do everything across all positions concept the organization/management/coaching is, could argue that Fred’s days are numbered. At the same time you don’t want to be stuck with too much of the same so we’ll see how that turns out but in the same vein that a true center flies against position-less hoops, having Fred out there with 4 of those position-less players does too.
            That being said, I’m beginning to think this is much more of an experimental season than I originally thought, not just for player development, but hoop concept wise as well.

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            • Should I just come back in a week and a half or what
              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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              • grindhouse wrote: View Post

                Their strengths are not good enough to carry us to a championship. The only reason everyone is rallying behind them is cause that’s all we got. But if your being real with yourself when you look at them your basketball eye should say that’s not it.

                a trade may not come by mid season or end of season but when this team gets back to the finals those 2 guys will not be on it. I would bet money on that. The only purpose they have is to teach the young guys the offence and how to be pros.

                I feel like I am having the same argument when we had derozan till we traded him and won a championship. I know what I am watching but whatever
                GTjr is far more likely to be the so-called new Derozan than OG is, both in terms of player profile and in terms of personality.

                Fred is less of an obvious fit with the current direction of the team than OG is (and yes, OG is an obvious fit with the current direction of the team; he has size and wingspan and can defend multiple positions very well), but Fred's shown himself to be adaptable, and if Nurse can integrate him with tall-wide-and-defensive brigade well, he'll be a great asset to that direction. Fred might still be here in a few years, or he might be elsewhere, but OG is good value for his contract, and isn't going anywhere without a high-value player in return.

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                • All players that are on roster. None of them might carry us to championship lmao what type of argument this is lol
                  Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                  • TheWaterboy wrote: View Post

                    GTjr is far more likely to be the so-called new Derozan than OG is, both in terms of player profile and in terms of personality.
                    I mean, if Trent is the new DeRozan, that's pretty good no? you can say whatever you want about DeRozan, but that man was the Raps go to scorer from 2013-2018. I don't think Trent is good enough to be a go to scorer on a playoff team, maybe on a bad team.

                    Also, DeRozan in his prime gets to the line 8-10 times A GAME. So even when he's struggling with his shot he can still up points. Trent? I don't think i've seen him shoot freethrows since he got traded here to be honest.
                    Mamba Mentality

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                    • The Great One wrote: View Post

                      I mean, if Trent is the new DeRozan, that's pretty good no? you can say whatever you want about DeRozan, but that man was the Raps go to scorer from 2013-2018. I don't think Trent is good enough to be a go to scorer on a playoff team, maybe on a bad team.

                      Also, DeRozan in his prime gets to the line 8-10 times A GAME. So even when he's struggling with his shot he can still up points. Trent? I don't think i've seen him shoot freethrows since he got traded here to be honest.
                      yeah views about Derozan are starting to get ridicilous. Offensively his only weakness was three point shooting. None of our players have his offensive package right now. That's a fact. that's not even an argument.
                      Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                      • MixxAOR wrote: View Post

                        yeah views about Derozan are starting to get ridicilous. Offensively his only weakness was three point shooting. None of our players have his offensive package right now. That's a fact. that's not even an argument.
                        DeRozan's a great player. He's going to have his #10 retired one day. As for Trent, if people pay attention to his game, his game is nowhere near like DD. Like I said before, Trent reminds me so much of JR Smith/Patty Mills.
                        Mamba Mentality

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                        • The main thing you lose if you trade Fred is his leadership, and that’s hard to replace. I’m not If I see a guy that can step into that role… maybe Scotty one day but not yet.

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                          • saints91 wrote: View Post
                            The main thing you lose if you trade Fred is his leadership, and that’s hard to replace. I’m not If I see a guy that can step into that role… maybe Scotty one day but not yet.
                            That is definitely why its a huge risk and you better be sure that that risk is worth it. I wouldn't say that you don't do it but you need to be fairly sure. Especially when you just spent time building him up as a big time leader publicly.

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                            • MixxAOR wrote: View Post

                              yeah views about Derozan are starting to get ridicilous. Offensively his only weakness was three point shooting. None of our players have his offensive package right now. That's a fact. that's not even an argument.
                              Yeah Derozan was really really really good. Basically when Kawhi arrived my first thought was, "he is just like Derozan with a 3point shot and more efficient". Now that was from an offensive standpoint. But yeah Derozan was offensively VERY good and still is very good. I saw one of his major issues on the as being a lack of 3 point shot and a lack of an ability to defend his position to an average level. It really hurt is a lot of times. Derozan for that reason was the one who was traded.

                              His footwork is one of the best we have seen. He did his best Kobe impression minus the 3 point shot and the defence. He was a good player and is a good player. He combined with JV created two defensive holes that couldn't be covered up.

                              JV got wrecked in pick and roll schemes, Demar created problems on the front end of the defence.

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                              • Masai doesn't build teams like OKC is trying to do. He doesn't tear it to the ground. What he wants to try and do is win and develop at the same time. But the win part does not necessarily mean getting the 3rd round let alone the finals. It's an iterative approach. Kyle and DeMar lost in the first round twice (the second time was a bad sweep by an inferior team). They then some how got to the ECF only to get smoked. And then faced Lebron two more times only to lose every time again. That was 5 seasons before drastic changes were made. Otherwise the core pretty much stayed in tact through that rubbish.

                                Fred and OG (and even Pascal) may not be here if we get to the finals again. Or they all could. What I know is that Masai is pretty stubborn. He won't just make changes for the sake of it.

                                Pascal isn't here so it's pretty hard on Fred or OG to be that guy, because it's a collective. But I don't think either of them have it in them to carry this team into an ECF appearance. But I could see all three sticking around for another 2-3 years while they try to climb that mountain again.

                                It'll be a really interesting season as we are missing a play-making point guard and a real center. Now Scottie and Dragic can play that role, but I don't know if Nurse trusts either of them. As for the real center, we will platoon it with three sub-7ft guys. Just hope they can keep healthy. Not really a great start to the season though in the "health" department. If Achiuawa has to miss a game early and Khem is still in covid protocol we're not going to be off to a great start.

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