'21-'22 Roster Construction

[planetmars]

The real problem is the hard cap for the 76ers. Really limits what they can take back in salary. I think they can still make 25M work for Lowry but it's really tight, I imagine the pitch is for him to get a 20x3 deal (versus the 25x2 that I expect teams like the Raps and Heat would be offering). That would free them up to trade Hill OR Curry OR do a sign and trade with Scott/Green, keep Curry for depth, and otherwise fill out the roster with minimums. Hill is tricky with the timing of his guarantee, think it kicks in first day of the moratorium, though might be able to get him to push that back.

The apron will likely be at $142M.. and post Lowry trade (assume they take $5M more in salary).. takes them to about $135M if I did my math right.. but yes, all depth will be lost, and they'll need at least 4 or 5 minimum contracts to fill out their roster. So yeah, they'd want Lowry at less, or to see if they could move Harris to another team, and then be able to round out their roster better.

[DanH]

The apron will likely be at $142M.. and post Lowry trade (assume they take $5M more in salary).. takes them to about $135M if I did my math right.. but yes, all depth will be lost, and they'll need at least 4 or 5 minimum contracts to fill out their roster. So yeah, they'd want Lowry at less, or to see if they could move Harris to another team, and then be able to round out their roster better.

Keep in mind all minimum salaries count as 2 year veteran salaries for hard cap purposes (2nd rounders being the exception) - so at 1.7M per, that's a solid chunk of the room under the hard cap you have to consider.

[Primer]

OK so we'd definitely need to be getting a pick or two to make this worth our while, otherwise letting Lowry walk and using the money on Holmes seems like a way better option. We don't have a need for any of the players mentioned as potentially coming back to us, and we're not going to do a S&T just for the sake of doing something with Lowry. Same as how we didn't trade him this season just for the hell of it, the return is really what matters.

[golden]

This roster is badly needing a crunch-time scorer. Siakam and FVV ain't it. There might be some hope for OG in a few years. Some familiar and surprising names on the list of this year's top crunch-time scorers. Maybe worth a look at a trade in the off-season.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...rs-this-season

[inthepaint]

Imo you go for the best aggregate return (talent) for Lowry, even if it doesn't involve a C. These guys are maybe no longer on the table, but Maxey, Thybulle, Nunn & Robinson are all better than Richaun Holmes. Get the best aggregate return regardless of position, then with the incoming assets plus what you already have (eg boucher) you go shop for a C.

Letting Lowry walk for nothing so you can hope to sign Holmes is a paltry return for the Groat. And that's not even considering the fact Holmes might not even want to come here in FA (like Harry Gilles). Then you truly lost the groat for nothing.

[Primer]

Imo you go for the best aggregate return (talent) for Lowry, even if it doesn't involve a C. These guys are maybe no longer on the table, but Maxey, Thybulle, Nunn & Robinson are all better than Richaun Holmes. Get the best aggregate return regardless of position, then with the incoming assets plus what you already have (eg boucher) you go shop for a C.

Letting Lowry walk for nothing so you can hope to sign Holmes is a paltry return for the Groat. And that's not even considering the fact Holmes might not even want to come here in FA (like Harry Gilles). Then you truly lost the groat for nothing.

Extremely disagree with this, they are significantly worse than Holmes and it's not even close.

If Holmes was under contract 3+ years and we had traded Lowry for him this season everyone here would be happy as hell with the return. Letting Lowry walk and signing Holmes is basically the equivalent to that.

Holmes is a 27 year old legitimate starting center averaging 14.3 pts, 8.7 reb, 1.6 ast, 1.6 blk, .643 FG%, .792 FT%.

He doesn't shoot 3's and that's the only knock I have on him. I'd take him over everyone you mentioned 10 times out of 10 and twice on Sundays.

[inthepaint]

Extremely disagree with this, they are significantly worse than Holmes and it's not even close.

If Holmes was under contract 3+ years and we had traded Lowry for him this season everyone here would be happy as hell with the return. Letting Lowry walk and signing Holmes is basically the equivalent to that.

Holmes is a 27 year old legitimate starting center averaging 14.3 pts, 8.7 reb, 1.6 ast, 1.6 blk, .643 FG%, .792 FT%.

He doesn't shoot 3's and that's the only knock I have on him. I'd take him over everyone you mentioned 10 times out of 10 and twice on Sundays.

Meh. Holmes is alright but he's the oldest of these 4, and doesn't space the floor. That's not a modern nba starting C (unless you're in DPOY territory like Gobert or Turner, which he certainly is not) .Stats on bad team like Sac can look inflated. His name has been coming up because everyone was basically scrambling to find a C, and he happens to be a free agent this year. There are several other players with higher ceiling on the teams targeting Lowry (or at least more coveted around the league than Holmes), which we could try to flip on package for Turner or other players. Besides, letting your best player walk so you can hope the free agent you're targeting wants to come here is a gamble. We tried that by letting Serge & Gasol walk and ended up with baynes. I'd say let's trade and draft well which is our strength rather than relying in free agency which never really worked for us.

[Primer]

Meh. Holmes is alright but he's the oldest of these 4, and doesn't space the floor. That's not a modern nba starting C (unless you're in DPOY territory like Gobert or Turner, which he certainly is not) .Stats on bad team like Sac can look inflated. His name has been coming up because everyone was basically scrambling to find a C, and he happens to be a free agent this year. There are several other players with higher ceiling on the teams targeting Lowry (or at least more coveted around the league than Holmes), which we could try to flip on package for Turner or other players. Besides, letting your best player walk so you can hope the free agent you're targeting wants to come here is a gamble. We tried that by letting Serge & Gasol walk and ended up with baynes. I'd say let's trade and draft well which is our strength rather than relying in free agency which never really worked for us.

None of the guys you mentioned are centers who space the floor or a modern NBA starting C so I don't get how in any way they are a better return than Holmes. Currently they are all below average NBA players who wouldn't get minutes here.

Letting Lowry walk is in no way similar to letting Gasol and Serge walk. We wanted the cap space for a run at Giannis and neither guy would take a 1 year deal. Neither have been anything special for their new teams so we really didn't lose much.

This season was always going to be a throw away transition year, no one thought Baynes was a long term piece, hence the 1 year deal.

You aren't signing Holmes with a one year deal and he is orders of magnitude better than Baynes and could be our starting center for the next 4 years.

I'd also rather have the empty cap space than any of the guys you mentioned. None of them seem like a long term piece to me, journeyman bench players at best.

[inthepaint]

None of the guys you mentioned are centers who space the floor or a modern NBA starting C so I don't get how in any way they are a better return than Holmes. Currently they are all below average NBA players who wouldn't get minutes here.

Letting Lowry walk is in no way similar to letting Gasol and Serge walk. We wanted the cap space for a run at Giannis and neither guy would take a 1 year deal. Neither have been anything special for their new teams so we really didn't lose much.

This season was always going to be a throw away transition year, no one thought Baynes was a long term piece, hence the 1 year deal.

You aren't signing Holmes with a one year deal and he is orders of magnitude better than Baynes and could be our starting center for the next 4 years.

I'd also rather have the empty cap space than any of the guys you mentioned. None of them seem like a long term piece to me, journeyman bench players at best.

Well, we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. Nunn and Robinson are above average 3pt shooting wings that have just been to the nba finals. Holmes is alright but he's basically an energy big that never sniffed the playoffs, is older than both of them, and can't shoot. You put a poll among GM's asking who they'd rather have on their team between Duncan Robinson (starter on a team that just won the east) or Richaun Holmes, and it's not even close. You give birch a year doing pnr with De-Aaron fox (or even Kyle Lowry himself), and he can put 14pts/ 8 boards with non-outside shot and ok defence too.

Edit: Thybulle & Maxey, the "below average nba players who wouldn't get minutes here" as you refer to, (here meaning the raptors, currently in the lottery), are averaging 20 and 15 minutes per game respectively, on the 2nd best team in the east.

What you want for your franchise PG is a real prospect (ideally 25 and under) and a pick. It doesn't need to be a superstar but it's gotta be something rather than a 27yr old energy big that doesn't space the floor. That's the roster need for a C talking, rather than the actual value Lowry has to a contender on this league. Kemba Walker, old Chris Paul, Mike Conley, Kyrie Irving etc all got more to their cornerstone franchise than a shot at a Richaun Holmes type of player. That's my take, but you can have yours too, it's all valid.

[magoon]

Realistically, if you're talking about potential return for Lowry, it matters where he decides he wants to go. If he doesn't want to go to Philly, there won't be a sign-and-trade with Philly. If Miami decides to blow their cap signing him - and they could - well, there ya go. Who knows, maybe Philly and Miami and the Lakers will all lowball him hard and he'll say "re-sign me for fifteen million a year for two years and make me a player-coach and we got a deal" and we would be fools not to take that, honestly.

[saints91]

Honestly, Khem (not only because last night) is all we need out of a starting 5. If we can keep him at 10M (or mid level... I think it's close to that number or less) that is a huge win. If you have most of your money going to wings and creators then you are further ahead. I think we would also need one bigger 5 for matchup purposes, but I think we can find that n the cheep.

I think we should pair Boucher and one of our wings not named OG and get a bit of a talent upgrade.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Honestly, Khem (not only because last night) is all we need out of a starting 5. If we can keep him at 10M (or mid level... I think it's close to that number or less) that is a huge win. If you have most of your money going to wings and creators then you are further ahead. I think we would also need one bigger 5 for matchup purposes, but I think we can find that n the cheep.

I think we should pair Boucher and one of our wings not named OG and get a bit of a talent upgrade.

you want to trade OG?

[inthepaint]

you want to trade OG?

he said "not named OG"

[DanH]

he said "not named OG"

I think the word "pair" is confusing, as it is usually used in the context of team building, not trades, but yes, I believe he meant to trade Boucher and some non-OG wing for the upgrade.

[inthepaint]

Honestly, Khem (not only because last night) is all we need out of a starting 5. If we can keep him at 10M (or mid level... I think it's close to that number or less) that is a huge win. If you have most of your money going to wings and creators then you are further ahead. I think we would also need one bigger 5 for matchup purposes, but I think we can find that n the cheep.

I think we should pair Boucher and one of our wings not named OG and get a bit of a talent upgrade.

That's how I feel too. You don't waste assets on a C (let alone let your best player walk for nothing so you can create cap space for one), unless it's a franchise player like KAT/Embiid/Jokic, or DPOY caliber guys like Gobert/Turner. You want wings and creators and a serviceble big not eating too much of the cap (like birch).

The average positional spending on C's in the league is 16M (It skews from team to team and some PF's play C but ultimately that's the average the 30 teams spend on the entire C rotation this year)

I like birch but I think the MLE/10M is too high for him. That's the kind of money Serge got; Lopez is making 12M with the bucks. Birch is a couple of tiers below these guys. He's getting better but he just got waived and was averaging 5/5/1. I have him somewhere between Dedmon (~3M when he was younger), Theis (~5M) and Poeltl on the high end (~8M)

[unrelated but Poeltl has become a heck of a defender under popovich - anchoring the paint really well for them, which is nice to see]