'21-'22 Roster Construction

[MixxAOR]

[golden]

Probably the agent trying to make a market for his client by listing teams that obviously need a center. Same rumor came out last year about Raptors being interested in Montrezl Harrell. Our front office never leaks.

[inthepaint]

[planetmars]

I'd love Noel.. he can't space the floor but makes your defense so much better just by being a presence down low. Would be really hard to score against Noel/OG/Siakam. He's the reason why NY had such an elite defense last year.

I'd sign him even if we get Mobley.

[golden]

I'd love Noel.. he can't space the floor but makes your defense so much better just by being a presence down low. Would be really hard to score against Noel/OG/Siakam. He's the reason why NY had such an elite defense last year.

I'd sign him even if we get Mobley.

Noel gives it all back on offense and that weakness is magnified in the playoffs. Imagine giving Fred and Pascal even less room to create in the half-court. There's a reason why he'll be on his 5th team in 5 years.

[planetmars]

Noel gives it all back on offense and that weakness is magnified in the playoffs. Imagine giving Fred and Pascal even less room to create in the half-court. There's a reason why he'll be on his 5th team in 5 years.

He had a -17.9 net rating in the first round.. second worst on the team (after Payton). So yeah awful.

But in OKC he had the 3rd best net rating both years in both 2019 and 2020. Well actually 2nd best since Burton had a better ranking in both years, but he barely played.

He's a role player and shouldn't make more than the mid-level. But he'd still be a valuable addition IMO.

[magoon]

From Hoopsrumors


The Kings are among the “known suitors” who would like to get Ben Simmons from the Sixers, but they aren’t likely to part with De’Aaron Fox, sources tell Jason Anderson of The Sacramento Bee.

Numerous reports have stated that Philadelphia is putting a high asking price on Simmons and is hoping to get an All-Star player in return. Fox hasn’t been an All-Star yet, but he has been extremely productive in his first four NBA seasons and is part of the young foundation in Sacramento. He averaged 25.2 points, 3.5 rebounds and 7.2 assists in 58 games this year while shooting 47.7% from the field and 32.2% from three-point range. He’s also under contract for the next five years.
Anderson states that the Kings are more likely to offer a package that includes shooting guard Buddy Hield, power forward Marvin Bagley III and multiple future first-round picks. A league source told Anderson that Sacramento would have to give up at least three first-rounders to make the deal work, while another source said the Sixers wouldn’t have any interest unless Fox or rookie guard Tyrese Haliburton is part of the offer.

Anderson has since updated to say the Kings's initial offer starts with three first-round picks. Given that we're talking about Kangz picks here, those are actually pretty valuable around the league.

Is it a good offer for Philly? Yes and no. Bagley is garbage, Hield fits their team reasonably well, the picks are good but not what a win-now team wants - but those picks and Bagley can be subsequently traded away to get Philly more assets.

Like, consider a Kyle S&T where they send us Bagley (ptui), George Hill (mostly non-guaranteed money) and the Kings picks. That is honestly pretty decent return for us: we're a team that drafts mostly very well and finds contributors quickly and cheaply through the draft, and we just have to eat Bagley's salary for two years (less, if we can find a rebuilding team willing to take a flier on him). Then the Sixers have a starting four of Kyle, Hield, Harris, and Embiid, which is very interesting, plus Thybulle, Maxey, Shake, Dwight and Seth Curry as a bench. They just need to find a couple of decent cheap wings, and Philly still has all their own picks to try and trade for a good one. (I mean, Robert Covington cost Portland two first-rounders; it can be done.) That's absolutely a title contender.

[c-troop]

why the bitterness about Nerlens Noel?

very solid defence asset and would be a great addition.

[DanH]

why the bitterness about Nerlens Noel?

very solid defence asset and would be a great addition.

At the minimum? Sure. With the MLE? Rather have Birch. With cap space? No thanks very much.

[c-troop]

At the minimum? Sure. With the MLE? Rather have Birch. With cap space? No thanks very much.

That doesn't make much sense considering people here constantly fantasizing about trades with limited/inadequate pieces.

20 mill in cap space, the front office better acquire two assets with value for the long term.

Despite Birch's 2 extra ppg Birch is:

A) older
B) shorter
C) a worse defender
E) less experienced
F) less efficient
G) less attractive trade bait
H) lower win shares
I) fewer rebounds
J) fewer blocks
K) higher usage

Player Comparison: Khem Birch vs. Nerlens Noel | Stathead.com

[TrueTorontoFan]

That doesn't make much sense considering people here constantly fantasizing about trades with limited/inadequate pieces.

20 mill in cap space, the front office better acquire two assets with value for the long term.

Despite Birch's 2 extra ppg Birch is:

A) older
B) shorter
C) a worse defender
E) less experienced
F) less efficient
G) less attractive trade bait
H) lower win shares
I) fewer rebounds
J) fewer blocks
K) higher usage

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=birchkh0 1&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=noelne01&p2yrfrom=202 1

Noel had behavioral issues that involved trashing a hotel .... I thnk Noel would be interesting as insurance if it isn't Birch but I would rather Birch. Even if we get Mobley I feel like Birch may need some back line help and I can see them deciding against bringing back Gillespie on a minimum but I think they want him on a Two - Way deal.



Also last year Noel had 5.1ppg in NY in 64 games with 41 starts. In 19 games with the raptors 17 starts Birch had 11.9 ppg.


Birch shot the 3 at a 30% clip vs 0% for Noel.

Birch had a higher number of steals just barely but Noel was a better blocker.

Similar 2%

Looking at Rebounds Birch is a better rebounder actually. Shorter but weighs more by 10 pounds officially. Age difference is a year.


But go on.

[Primer]

Anderson has since updated to say the Kings's initial offer starts with three first-round picks. Given that we're talking about Kangz picks here, those are actually pretty valuable around the league.

Is it a good offer for Philly? Yes and no. Bagley is garbage, Hield fits their team reasonably well, the picks are good but not what a win-now team wants - but those picks and Bagley can be subsequently traded away to get Philly more assets.

Like, consider a Kyle S&T where they send us Bagley (ptui), George Hill (mostly non-guaranteed money) and the Kings picks. That is honestly pretty decent return for us: we're a team that drafts mostly very well and finds contributors quickly and cheaply through the draft, and we just have to eat Bagley's salary for two years (less, if we can find a rebuilding team willing to take a flier on him). Then the Sixers have a starting four of Kyle, Hield, Harris, and Embiid, which is very interesting, plus Thybulle, Maxey, Shake, Dwight and Seth Curry as a bench. They just need to find a couple of decent cheap wings, and Philly still has all their own picks to try and trade for a good one. (I mean, Robert Covington cost Portland two first-rounders; it can be done.) That's absolutely a title contender.

This is a realistic trade that makes sense for everyone involved. We try to redeem Bagley who is a serviceable C making mle level money and we get picks.

[DanH]

That doesn't make much sense considering people here constantly fantasizing about trades with limited/inadequate pieces.

20 mill in cap space, the front office better acquire two assets with value for the long term.

Despite Birch's 2 extra ppg Birch is:

A) older
B) shorter
C) a worse defender
E) less experienced
F) less efficient
G) less attractive trade bait
H) lower win shares
I) fewer rebounds
J) fewer blocks
K) higher usage

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=birchkh0 1&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=noelne01&p2yrfrom=202 1

It is far smarter to use all your cap room in one place to maximize the quality of the player you get. You can add MLE level players every year when you are over the cap. You only get so many cap room summers (and this summer may not even be one).

As for Noel vs Birch, we know Birch fits great with the Raps as constructed.

As for individual stats, Birch and Noel are very similar overall rebounders (with Birch more effective on the offensive end, Noel on the defensive end). Noel has great block and steal rates, and is a great defensive C. No arguments there. But his offensive limitations are very real, so he washes out as neutral overall impact, just like Birch does (he is more neutral on both ends). Difference being Birch has less of an obvious weakness to be exploited, which is important in complementary players, more so than big strengths.

[DanH]

Anderson has since updated to say the Kings's initial offer starts with three first-round picks. Given that we're talking about Kangz picks here, those are actually pretty valuable around the league.

Is it a good offer for Philly? Yes and no. Bagley is garbage, Hield fits their team reasonably well, the picks are good but not what a win-now team wants - but those picks and Bagley can be subsequently traded away to get Philly more assets.

Like, consider a Kyle S&T where they send us Bagley (ptui), George Hill (mostly non-guaranteed money) and the Kings picks. That is honestly pretty decent return for us: we're a team that drafts mostly very well and finds contributors quickly and cheaply through the draft, and we just have to eat Bagley's salary for two years (less, if we can find a rebuilding team willing to take a flier on him). Then the Sixers have a starting four of Kyle, Hield, Harris, and Embiid, which is very interesting, plus Thybulle, Maxey, Shake, Dwight and Seth Curry as a bench. They just need to find a couple of decent cheap wings, and Philly still has all their own picks to try and trade for a good one. (I mean, Robert Covington cost Portland two first-rounders; it can be done.) That's absolutely a title contender.

Have to be really careful with any Philly trade - they can't take on much salary. Receiving Lowry in a sign and trade will put them under a hard cap (about 6M above the tax line) and that limits what they can do in a trade like this. Very difficult to be able to afford two big contracts coming back. Right now they are in line for 132M in salary to 11 players. Add 3 players at the 1.7M minimum and that means 137M in salary. The hard cap is going to be 143M or so.

So, for example, you do Lowry and Hield... Hield makes 23M. Simmons and Hill together make 43M. If Lowry wants 25M (which is the rumour), that takes them right to 142M in salary. So they would be riding the hard cap very closely. They can probably pull it off but it puts the team in a tough spot to add more depth and likely takes them out of the running for the buyout market mid-season. Also cuts off that option of expanding the trade to include getting further wing depth unless they are trading for guys on minimum salaries or finding other salary to send out to match. And cuts off any planned use of even the taxpayer MLE.

From a Raptors perspective, to use Hill as salary in the trade, they have to guarantee his contract (or as much of it as they want to use for salary matching).

It's an interesting idea. Just a narrow tightrope to walk for Philly.

[c-troop]

It is far smarter to use all your cap room in one place to maximize the quality of the player you get. You can add MLE level players every year when you are over the cap. You only get so many cap room summers (and this summer may not even be one).

As for Noel vs Birch, we know Birch fits great with the Raps as constructed.

As for individual stats, Birch and Noel are very similar overall rebounders (with Birch more effective on the offensive end, Noel on the defensive end). Noel has great block and steal rates, and is a great defensive C. No arguments there. But his offensive limitations are very real, so he washes out as neutral overall impact, just like Birch does (he is more neutral on both ends). Difference being Birch has less of an obvious weakness to be exploited, which is important in complementary players, more so than big strengths.

"Birch fits great" is kind of a white lie to protect coveted cap. Our team defence was 112.5 last year and as for scoring it wouldn't matter if Birch scored 5 extra points last season because his eFG% is so bad that it would take 10 possessions just to do so + I highly doubt if we draft a G with the 4th overall you would want more possessions going to the C position.

In reality, Noel is the teams' better fit regardless of offensive limitations because his usage is so low it gives more looks to shooters and his eFG% is very high when he's fed bunnies. Plus he's only 26 with 7 years experience. Ur the cap guru tho, so I am unaware how much MLE could even be allocated towards signing him that way.

My guess is he's going for 7-10 mill a season x 4.

Now as for "It is far smarter to use all your cap room in one place to maximize the quality of the player you get." That is true if you are ready to compete right away or else it's just setting expectations too high for nothing and a few years of later draft picks. I think this teams' window has closed for at least 3 years. Patience is the real winner here. Forget trying to land the big fish in FA. Until we can get back to Lowry/Derozan playoff status, it's time to acquire cheap tradeable pieces with a buy low/sell high mentality whilst retaining our best players.