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'21-'22 Roster Construction

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  • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
    All players that are on roster. None of them might carry us to championship lmao what type of argument this is lol
    Yeah, I’m not seeing any argument here. Our best players top out as elite role players on a championship team. Even Scottie projects as an elite role player. We don’t have anybody who can “carry us” like Kawhi did. Nobody on here is saying otherwise.

    Masai is trying to develop some high value pieces to trade for that guy. That’s where we are at right now. Gonna take awhile.

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    • golden wrote: View Post

      Yeah, I’m not seeing any argument here. Our best players top out as elite role players on a championship team. Even Scottie projects as an elite role player. We don’t have anybody who can “carry us” like Kawhi did. Nobody on here is saying otherwise.

      Masai is trying to develop some high value pieces to trade for that guy. That’s where we are at right now. Gonna take awhile.


      rememeber how we started? lol
      Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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      • MixxAOR wrote: View Post



        rememeber how we started? lol
        Started at the bottom and we right back there.

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        • golden wrote: View Post

          Started at the bottom and we right back there.
          that's just how it is in NBA
          Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

          Comment


          • I wonder is dragic gonna be a starter when the season begins? Dont think I like that idea, especially after moving Powell for Trent at his 17-18M AAV or whatever. I miss Powell.

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            • golden wrote: View Post

              Yeah, I’m not seeing any argument here. Our best players top out as elite role players on a championship team. Even Scottie projects as an elite role player. We don’t have anybody who can “carry us” like Kawhi did. Nobody on here is saying otherwise.

              Masai is trying to develop some high value pieces to trade for that guy. That’s where we are at right now. Gonna take awhile.
              Championship teams almost never have no "superstar" players to carry them, but the Detroit team that was the exception that proves the rule had a) elite role players at every position and b) an elite defense as a team.

              If we can parlay some of our assets into a superstar player that can carry the team, that's almost certainly a great idea, but we're not that far from having the five elite role players who play an elite defense either. (If there's a reasonable argument for trading GTjr and Dragic + draft capital for Simmons, that's probably part of it.)

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              • TheWaterboy wrote: View Post

                Championship teams almost never have no "superstar" players to carry them, but the Detroit team that was the exception that proves the rule had a) elite role players at every position and b) an elite defense as a team.

                If we can parlay some of our assets into a superstar player that can carry the team, that's almost certainly a great idea, but we're not that far from having the five elite role players who play an elite defense either. (If there's a reasonable argument for trading GTjr and Dragic + draft capital for Simmons, that's probably part of it.)
                it could be because its easier to build that way and gamble that your top 2 or 3 guys can carry you through vs building a reqally well balanced team.


                I do think GTJ and Dragic for draft capital woudl put us over the top into a top 4 team in the east definitively.

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                • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

                  it could be because its easier to build that way and gamble that your top 2 or 3 guys can carry you through vs building a really well balanced team.


                  I do think GTJ and Dragic for draft capital woudl put us over the top into a top 4 team in the east definitively.
                  Whether it's easier depends on who your Superstars are.

                  Lebron and Kobe are tier 1 superstars: They're superstars on offence and defence. Durant might be too, depending on where you draw your boundaries. Neither of them was a guaranteed NBA champion year in and year out, but the ability to play at that level on both ends of the floor allows a GM a lot more flexibility in assembling elite talent around them because there's fewer cracks in the armor with a player like them, and it requires a higher baseline level of elite talent to match up against them on either end of the floor.

                  Kawhi is a superstar on defense and an elite role player on offence. Steph Curry is a superstar on offence and a role player on defence, but the caliber of his superstar talent on offense in the superstar tier has allowed GSW to compensate for his ordinariness on the defensive end, and Harden is not that different than Curry in that respect (superstar on offence, role player on D).
                  Paul George is an elite role player on both offence and defence but not a superstar on either.

                  Even with one elite role player on defense (Anunoby) out, the championship raptors had two non-Kawhi players who were elite role players on both offence and defence (Lowry and Siakim) as well as other players who were elite role players on one side of the floor (Van Vleet for sure, and I'd also place Ibaka and Gasol in that category. One of the issues that the Kawhi-era Clippers have had is that in the absence of a tier 1 superstar, they don't have that second player after George that's an elite role player on both offence and defense, and that has reduced their margin for error significantly.

                  I personally think that, in the absence of any better opportunities, having:
                  * Siakim who is an elite role player on both ends of the floor, and
                  * Anunoby, who is an elite role player on the defensive end and is starting to approach elite role player level on the offensive end, and
                  * Van Vleet, who is an elite role player on the defensive end, and is arguably an elite role player level on the offensive end if he gets to play off ball, and
                  * Gary Trent Jr, who projects to potentially be an elite role player on offense depending on how he develops, and
                  * Scottie Barnes, who has the potential to reach elite role player status on both ends of the floor quickly, and
                  * Other promising talent like Precious Achiuwa
                  ... all under contract for the same 2-3 year window is not a bad thing.

                  We're not in a bad place to upgrade if the opportunity arises and it makes sense (Dragic's expiring salary could be really useful for that, especially if the player we get back is a high-salary player), but in the presumed absence of opportunities to make that move (as the only current disgruntled player at that level is Simmons), building on what we have is certainly an option.

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                  • TheWaterboy wrote: View Post

                    Whether it's easier depends on who your Superstars are.

                    Lebron and Kobe are tier 1 superstars: They're superstars on offence and defence. Durant might be too, depending on where you draw your boundaries. Neither of them was a guaranteed NBA champion year in and year out, but the ability to play at that level on both ends of the floor allows a GM a lot more flexibility in assembling elite talent around them because there's fewer cracks in the armor with a player like them, and it requires a higher baseline level of elite talent to match up against them on either end of the floor.

                    Kawhi is a superstar on defense and an elite role player on offence. Steph Curry is a superstar on offence and a role player on defence, but the caliber of his superstar talent on offense in the superstar tier has allowed GSW to compensate for his ordinariness on the defensive end, and Harden is not that different than Curry in that respect (superstar on offence, role player on D).
                    Paul George is an elite role player on both offence and defence but not a superstar on either.

                    Even with one elite role player on defense (Anunoby) out, the championship raptors had two non-Kawhi players who were elite role players on both offence and defence (Lowry and Siakim) as well as other players who were elite role players on one side of the floor (Van Vleet for sure, and I'd also place Ibaka and Gasol in that category. One of the issues that the Kawhi-era Clippers have had is that in the absence of a tier 1 superstar, they don't have that second player after George that's an elite role player on both offence and defense, and that has reduced their margin for error significantly.

                    I personally think that, in the absence of any better opportunities, having:
                    * Siakim who is an elite role player on both ends of the floor, and
                    * Anunoby, who is an elite role player on the defensive end and is starting to approach elite role player level on the offensive end, and
                    * Van Vleet, who is an elite role player on the defensive end, and is arguably an elite role player level on the offensive end if he gets to play off ball, and
                    * Gary Trent Jr, who projects to potentially be an elite role player on offense depending on how he develops, and
                    * Scottie Barnes, who has the potential to reach elite role player status on both ends of the floor quickly, and
                    * Other promising talent like Precious Achiuwa
                    ... all under contract for the same 2-3 year window is not a bad thing.

                    We're not in a bad place to upgrade if the opportunity arises and it makes sense (Dragic's expiring salary could be really useful for that, especially if the player we get back is a high-salary player), but in the presumed absence of opportunities to make that move (as the only current disgruntled player at that level is Simmons), building on what we have is certainly an option.
                    Kawhi offensively was one of the most efficient people i've ever seen in my life so calling him a role player on offense even if he is an "elite" one is just not an accurate depiction of who he was. Unless you want to define what is a role player.

                    Comment


                    • planetmars wrote: View Post
                      Masai doesn't build teams like OKC is trying to do.

                      It'll be a really interesting season as we are missing a play-making point guard and a real center. Now Scottie and Dragic can play that role, but I don't know if Nurse trusts either of them. As for the real center, we will platoon it with three sub-7ft guys. Just hope they can keep healthy. Not really a great start to the season though in the "health" department. If Achiuawa has to miss a game early and Khem is still in covid protocol we're not going to be off to a great start.
                      I think for Masai this season is a feeling out process and they will go after a Center in the off season unless a good trade comes before the deadline.

                      I think we can all agree dragic shouldn’t be starting especially with no Center but the young guys don’t know the offence yet.

                      if I was looking into a crystal ball and predicting the future. By this time next year

                      banton or Scottie at point
                      yuta or svi at SG
                      Scottie or OG
                      pascal
                      and our future center

                      I really like how Scottie yuta and banton play together the defence on the perimeter is scary

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                      • golden wrote: View Post

                        Started at the bottom and we right back there.
                        Really? You think this team as has a 34.8% losing record at years end?
                        Too many good players on this team, that isn't going to happen barring catastrophic injury issues.

                        Comment


                        • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

                          Kawhi offensively was one of the most efficient people i've ever seen in my life so calling him a role player on offense even if he is an "elite" one is just not an accurate depiction of who he was. Unless you want to define what is a role player.
                          I consider "elite role player" to be the tier just below "superstar." I suppose some people have a "star" tier for that, but "star" is one of those words with very elastic meanings; "elite role player" just seems clearer/cleaner to me.

                          Anyway...

                          Is Kawhi efficient on offense? Yes. Is he a threat to go off for 30? Some nights. Is he a threat to go off for 50? Not really. That's the basis for me calling Kawhi an elite role player on offense, or if you prefer, one tier below a superstar on offense.

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                          • TheWaterboy wrote: View Post

                            I consider "elite role player" to be the tier just below "superstar." I suppose some people have a "star" tier for that, but "star" is one of those words with very elastic meanings; "elite role player" just seems clearer/cleaner to me.

                            Anyway...

                            Is Kawhi efficient on offense? Yes. Is he a threat to go off for 30? Some nights. Is he a threat to go off for 50? Not really. That's the basis for me calling Kawhi an elite role player on offense, or if you prefer, one tier below a superstar on offense.
                            Kawhi shot 50/40/90 and also stated that he doesn't feel the need to go off to 30 all the time. I think one's ability to score vs the amount they score are two different things. Just because you have the ability to score doesn't mean you have to. It depends on the offensive scheme. Running a heliocentric offense is just not what we have ever done

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                            • grindhouse wrote: View Post

                              I think for Masai this season is a feeling out process and they will go after a Center in the off season unless a good trade comes before the deadline.

                              I think we can all agree dragic shouldn’t be starting especially with no Center but the young guys don’t know the offence yet.

                              if I was looking into a crystal ball and predicting the future. By this time next year

                              banton or Scottie at point
                              yuta or svi at SG
                              Scottie or OG
                              pascal
                              and our future center

                              I really like how Scottie yuta and banton play together the defence on the perimeter is scary
                              Dragic is like CJ Miles. Just a vet on the team. He's an expiring and won't be here next year. If he's not going to be a playmaker then he should come off the bench. But I don't really care if he's here for the entire year or not.

                              And for that center.. it's Achiuawa. Plus Birch signed a 3 year deal too. We're not going to be chasing those 7ft guys in free agency or via trades anytime soon IMO. We had a chance to go after guys like Holmes and Allen and decided to go with Achiuawa and Birch instead. Masai made his decision already.

                              Future is hard to predict. Banton may not survive if he can't figure out how to shoot. I think that's a necessary skill for a PG in today's NBA. Svi has a player option next season and could leave in free agency. Yuta could leave as well (maybe he wants to go play with his fellow countryman in Washington)?

                              But Trent signed a 2+1 deal. And IMO likely opts into his player option since he got a handsome contract. So he's going to be part of that "future" too unless we can find a way to trade him.

                              Comment


                              • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

                                Kawhi shot 50/40/90 and also stated that he doesn't feel the need to go off to 30 all the time. I think one's ability to score vs the amount they score are two different things. Just because you have the ability to score doesn't mean you have to. It depends on the offensive scheme. Running a heliocentric offense is just not what we have ever done
                                Kawhi's not in the 50/40/90 club. He never hit 90% at the line. He did hit the 50/40/89 mark last year though.

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