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  • Are we really debating if Kawhi is a superstar in the NBA?

    If he doesn't meet your standards for a superstar then something is wrong with your standards.

    Comment


    • "Why don't we just trade some of the current guys for better ones and win a championship" is such a helpful take, I frequently forget this is an option but I'm glad it is. Somebody get the blueprint to Masai, stat.

      Honestly, opportunity to add a top tier guy is really, really limited in the NBA. In the meantime you may have years to build the best team possible and position yourself for that moment. That's what Masai does and that's where we're at. This ain't gonna happen fast.
      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

      Comment


      • OK, my bet on the camp invites right now...

        Makes the team:
        - Yuta (obviously)
        - Bonga
        - Wainright (carried for a month until Nov 16th or so then cut when his guarantee/room under the tax is used up)

        Cut out of camp:
        - Gillespie (905 signing, though have to trade for his G-League rights)
        - Perry (905 signing)
        - Dekker
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • DanH wrote: View Post
          OK, my bet on the camp invites right now...

          Makes the team:
          - Yuta (obviously)
          - Bonga
          - Wainright (carried for a month until Nov 16th or so then cut when his guarantee/room under the tax is used up)

          Cut out of camp:
          - Gillespie (905 signing, though have to trade for his G-League rights)
          - Perry (905 signing)
          - Dekker
          Hope you are correct. Sorry for the other guys but Wainwright showed something in Vegas and I would like to see him get a little more time.

          Comment


          • DanH wrote: View Post
            OK, my bet on the camp invites right now...

            Makes the team:
            - Yuta (obviously)
            - Bonga
            - Wainright (carried for a month until Nov 16th or so then cut when his guarantee/room under the tax is used up)

            Cut out of camp:
            - Gillespie (905 signing, though have to trade for his G-League rights)
            - Perry (905 signing)
            - Dekker
            What about Svi? Is he already guaranteed?

            Comment


            • Shredder wrote: View Post

              What about Svi? Is he already guaranteed?
              he has a guaranteed contract yes.

              two years player option on the second.

              Comment


              • Shredder wrote: View Post

                What about Svi? Is he already guaranteed?
                Svi and Banton both have guaranteed NBA deals.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

                Comment


                • Primer wrote: View Post
                  Are we really debating if Kawhi is a superstar in the NBA?

                  If he doesn't meet your standards for a superstar then something is wrong with your standards.
                  Perhaps there is something wrong with my standards - that's a reasonable opinion.

                  I will say that in my opinion, identifying more than three or maybe four current NBA players as superstars really waters the term down a bit. I'm fine with saying that right now Lebron, Durant, and Steph Curry (not really an elite defender but his shooting and playmaking are just that historically excellent). To me, Kawhi is definitely up there at the almost-but-not-quite-a-superstar level (see also: Anthony Davis, Jimmy Butler), and definitely at a level above players who are perennial all stars like Bradley Beal and Joel Embiid, who you would need to build a contender around rather than making virtually any league-average team a contender. (Maybe call the Kawhi/Davis/Butler tier your you-always-trade-for-them tier.)

                  With that data to work from, do you think that this is just a garden variety my-standards-are-too-high situation, or do you think my standards are off in some other way?

                  Comment


                  • TheWaterboy wrote: View Post

                    Perhaps there is something wrong with my standards - that's a reasonable opinion.

                    I will say that in my opinion, identifying more than three or maybe four current NBA players as superstars really waters the term down a bit. I'm fine with saying that right now Lebron, Durant, and Steph Curry (not really an elite defender but his shooting and playmaking are just that historically excellent). To me, Kawhi is definitely up there at the almost-but-not-quite-a-superstar level (see also: Anthony Davis, Jimmy Butler), and definitely at a level above players who are perennial all stars like Bradley Beal and Joel Embiid, who you would need to build a contender around rather than making virtually any league-average team a contender. (Maybe call the Kawhi/Davis/Butler tier your you-always-trade-for-them tier.)

                    With that data to work from, do you think that this is just a garden variety my-standards-are-too-high situation, or do you think my standards are off in some other way?
                    Kawhi literally was up there offensively at an MJ level. The issue that I had and have with him is his health. He has a progressive leg disease. Now having an ACL tear on it too. He will continue to have issues and stay on the court for long periods of time. When he is on though ... ohhh he will be on.


                    I agree with you though. AD isn't a super star level but a step below. A healthy Kawhi though is literally one of the most unstoppable forces in the NBA. Offensively and defensively.

                    Luka could be there but needs to prove it FIRST. That super max contract off a rookie scale extension was not a smart idea from a cap space management standpoint. They should have just given him the normal max and went from there. Especially since no other team could give him a supermax.


                    Back to Kawhi:



                    He lacked playmaking but in 2019 he was 99th percentile in offensive metrics....

                    He was bigger and stronger than anyone and that was his trick to allow him to get space.



                    His shooting form was textbook. He just wasn't... "fancy".

                    Comment


                    • TheWaterboy wrote: View Post

                      Perhaps there is something wrong with my standards - that's a reasonable opinion.

                      I will say that in my opinion, identifying more than three or maybe four current NBA players as superstars really waters the term down a bit. I'm fine with saying that right now Lebron, Durant, and Steph Curry (not really an elite defender but his shooting and playmaking are just that historically excellent). To me, Kawhi is definitely up there at the almost-but-not-quite-a-superstar level (see also: Anthony Davis, Jimmy Butler), and definitely at a level above players who are perennial all stars like Bradley Beal and Joel Embiid, who you would need to build a contender around rather than making virtually any league-average team a contender. (Maybe call the Kawhi/Davis/Butler tier your you-always-trade-for-them tier.)

                      With that data to work from, do you think that this is just a garden variety my-standards-are-too-high situation, or do you think my standards are off in some other way?
                      I agree that we are often to liberal with the term superstar. But to me it is reserved for a guy who a can a lead to a championship as the number 1 guy. Kawhi clearly did that. the other 3 you mentioned have also done it. Giannis would make the distinction now and a think there are a couple guys who have potential to do so in the future, I.E- Luka, Joker
                      To be the champs you got to beat the champs

                      Comment


                      • TheWaterboy wrote: View Post

                        Perhaps there is something wrong with my standards - that's a reasonable opinion.

                        I will say that in my opinion, identifying more than three or maybe four current NBA players as superstars really waters the term down a bit. I'm fine with saying that right now Lebron, Durant, and Steph Curry (not really an elite defender but his shooting and playmaking are just that historically excellent). To me, Kawhi is definitely up there at the almost-but-not-quite-a-superstar level (see also: Anthony Davis, Jimmy Butler), and definitely at a level above players who are perennial all stars like Bradley Beal and Joel Embiid, who you would need to build a contender around rather than making virtually any league-average team a contender. (Maybe call the Kawhi/Davis/Butler tier your you-always-trade-for-them tier.)

                        With that data to work from, do you think that this is just a garden variety my-standards-are-too-high situation, or do you think my standards are off in some other way?
                        Like, wouldn't "he can be the clear-cut no-question best player on a championship team" be a pretty reasonable definition of superstar? And what exactly is the value of the term if it isn't that?

                        Also, maybe you missed it, but there have been a lot of non-contenders and even teams that missed the playoffs with guys like LeBron, Steph, Durant on the roster. No player can make a team a contender by himself. And you give any league average team a guy like Embiid (and LOL at Beal even being in this discussion, he shouldn't be) and yeah, they will be a contender.
                        twitter.com/dhackett1565

                        Comment


                        • TheWaterboy wrote: View Post

                          Perhaps there is something wrong with my standards - that's a reasonable opinion.

                          I will say that in my opinion, identifying more than three or maybe four current NBA players as superstars really waters the term down a bit. I'm fine with saying that right now Lebron, Durant, and Steph Curry (not really an elite defender but his shooting and playmaking are just that historically excellent). To me, Kawhi is definitely up there at the almost-but-not-quite-a-superstar level (see also: Anthony Davis, Jimmy Butler), and definitely at a level above players who are perennial all stars like Bradley Beal and Joel Embiid, who you would need to build a contender around rather than making virtually any league-average team a contender. (Maybe call the Kawhi/Davis/Butler tier your you-always-trade-for-them tier.)

                          With that data to work from, do you think that this is just a garden variety my-standards-are-too-high situation, or do you think my standards are off in some other way?
                          Kawhi is easily on a level above Davis and Butler and should be grouped with Lebron, Durant, and Curry. If Kawhi is on your team you're a contender. Not just a playoff team but a true championship contender. Pretty good chance he stays healthy last season he leads the Clippers to a title and has a championship with a 3rd team. That's a superstar.

                          Comment


                          • Kawhi is a superstar, he's just not as flashy or as loud as the rest, so it's easy to try and box him in lower.

                            Comment


                            • Primer wrote: View Post

                              Kawhi is easily on a level above Davis and Butler and should be grouped with Lebron, Durant, and Curry. If Kawhi is on your team you're a contender. Not just a playoff team but a true championship contender. Pretty good chance he stays healthy last season he leads the Clippers to a title and has a championship with a 3rd team. That's a superstar.
                              We had first hand experience. The Derozan/Casey led teams were an okay Playoff team. We got Kawhi, Danny and Gasol and we won a championship. The Sixers series was a carry job by Kawhi averaging 35 PPG.

                              His game isn't flashy where he'll throw down 360 dunks or hit 5 crazy 3s in a row, but he is more than capable of averaging 30 a game. His only concern is his health letting him down.

                              Comment


                              • I am out on Gary Trent jr

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