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  • LJ2 wrote: View Post

    Isn't now a really good time to look at trade options (unless you think the talent is there to compete for a championship)? You have Dragic and Boucher expiring and 3 forwards in Barnes, OG and Siakam that should all be starting. If you were to add one of OG or Siakam to a package of Dragic, Boucher and maybe picks you could, if available, bring in a star at SG or C. Shouldn't we try to improve the talent level when the opportunity is there? With Barnes showing he's NBA ready we would never feel the loss of one of those two any less than we would right now.

    Is there a reason(s) you don't think it's a good time to make a trade? Is it a matter of waiting and seeing what the line up of FVV, Barnes, OG, Siakam and Birch is capable of?
    There are no stars in the market right now. Simmons isn't really a star, and he's the only big name ticket that's available. I mean Kyrie Irving is as well I guess, but he's a ticking time bomb.

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    • DanH wrote: View Post
      If we're talking a trade for a star, it obviously depends on the star, but broadly speaking basically anyone can be on the table in such a trade.

      If we're talking a trade specifically to consolidate depth to get our positions aligned better (which I don't believe for a second the current management gives the slightest damn about), then you are looking at offloading guys like Boucher and Dragic and Flynn and maybe Trent to see what solid single piece we can get back. Maybe a guy like Turner or something. But I would be surprised by such a trade. Moving off Dragic makes sense but I don't think they let any "oh you should start your best 5" preconceptions drive any of their decision-making.

      It's really about leveraging pieces for the maximum return if you do move them, and capitalizing on the value (if any) of guys you don't plan to keep beyond this year, if a larger trade for a star doesn't present by the deadline. So guys like Dragic, Boucher, could get sold off for an asset, and I think those sorts of deals are more likely than any consolidation deal, and more likely for them to want to do outside of a consolidation deal that lands them a true blue star.
      That is why I am thinking NOP may be a solid option. The two things I can think of is either future assets POTENTIALLY. or a guy like Jaxson Hayes OR Alexander-Walker.


      Again I am 100% trading Siakam. We need to see what we have with a line up that could be one of the most potent two way line ups in the league right now. A trade for the sake of it is kind of silly.


      In terms of ball handling though I think if you could figure out a trade partner for Fred at some point in the future (off-season), I believe that Barnes can improve his ball handling and that combine with our style of offense we may not need a primary "point guard" in a traditional sense. For now though, I'd prefer not to ruin our spacing unless we are trading Fred, and GTJ for a guy like Beal. In other words I think a trade that is major right now doesn't move the needle enough for it to make it any sense.



      Boucher, and Dragic are the assets that are most likely to go because of contract situations.

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      • planetmars wrote: View Post

        There are no stars in the market right now. Simmons isn't really a star, and he's the only big name ticket that's available. I mean Kyrie Irving is as well I guess, but he's a ticking time bomb.
        Kyrie would be a hell no if we are worried about Simmons ruining culture. Look at the scorched earth policy kyrie does to all of the past teams he has been on.

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        • planetmars wrote: View Post

          There are no stars in the market right now. Simmons isn't really a star, and he's the only big name ticket that's available. I mean Kyrie Irving is as well I guess, but he's a ticking time bomb.
          Well, Phoenix ended their extension talks with Ayton and while he may not be a star, he's probably in the top 3 or 4 conversation at C. He'd fit Scotties' timeline pretty well too. Phoenix is a win now team and they probably could have used a player like OG to guard Middleton in the finals. Heck they could have used OG to guard Giannis as well.
          Does a line up of FVV, Trent, Barnes, Siakam and Ayton look like a winner?

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          • LJ2 wrote: View Post

            Well, Phoenix ended their extension talks with Ayton and while he may not be a star, he's probably in the top 3 or 4 conversation at C. He'd fit Scotties' timeline pretty well too. Phoenix is a win now team and they probably could have used a player like OG to guard Middleton in the finals. Heck they could have used OG to guard Giannis as well.
            Does a line up of FVV, Trent, Barnes, Siakam and Ayton look like a winner?
            Suns already have three 3&D wings like OG: Bridges, Johnson & Crowder. They are stacked at that position. And they just paid Bridges.

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            • LJ2 wrote: View Post

              Well, Phoenix ended their extension talks with Ayton and while he may not be a star, he's probably in the top 3 or 4 conversation at C. He'd fit Scotties' timeline pretty well too. Phoenix is a win now team and they probably could have used a player like OG to guard Middleton in the finals. Heck they could have used OG to guard Giannis as well.
              Does a line up of FVV, Trent, Barnes, Siakam and Ayton look like a winner?
              I don't think Ayton leaves Phoenix. They just didn't want to give him the max. It's a John Collins situation all over again. They still need him. If they trade him, who's playing C?

              Comment


              • LJ2 wrote: View Post

                Isn't now a really good time to look at trade options (unless you think the talent is there to compete for a championship)? You have Dragic and Boucher expiring and 3 forwards in Barnes, OG and Siakam that should all be starting. If you were to add one of OG or Siakam to a package of Dragic, Boucher and maybe picks you could, if available, bring in a star at SG or C. Shouldn't we try to improve the talent level when the opportunity is there? With Barnes showing he's NBA ready we would never feel the loss of one of those two any less than we would right now.

                Is there a reason(s) you don't think it's a good time to make a trade? Is it a matter of waiting and seeing what the line up of FVV, Barnes, OG, Siakam and Birch is capable of?
                You look at this as a negative of having too many forwards. That's not the right way to look at it. Having 3 starting quality forwards is by design and exactly what Masai and Bobby want. We don't want to run a traditional lineup, so don't assume we're gonna make trades to get us closer to a traditional 1-5 lineup.

                Dragic and Boucher are on the trading block for sure but that's because they're expiring and don't really fit what we want to do (especially Dragic). We aren't going to use them to move one of our starting quality forwards because we want to start 3 forwards at a time, it's by design.

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                • Primer wrote: View Post

                  You look at this as a negative of having too many forwards. That's not the right way to look at it. Having 3 starting quality forwards is by design and exactly what Masai and Bobby want. We don't want to run a traditional lineup, so don't assume we're gonna make trades to get us closer to a traditional 1-5 lineup.

                  Dragic and Boucher are on the trading block for sure but that's because they're expiring and don't really fit what we want to do (especially Dragic). We aren't going to use them to move one of our starting quality forwards because we want to start 3 forwards at a time, it's by design.
                  Yeah, Bobby publicly stated the vision - it couldn't be any clearer where we are headed and what type of players they are looking for.

                  Comment


                  • Again they keep outlining what they want and everyone keeps trying to trade Siakam ... who frankly is better than OG in trades. They literally want everyone to be super versatile and lengthy AND athletic, and have offensive upside with good sound defensive principals. Siakam fits that in leaps and bounds.... so would it make sense to trade him. That is why I can understand trading FVV for Ben Simmons not that I want it but trading siakam doesn't make sense AND doesn't get us any better. You can play a closing line up of Siakam, OG, and Barnes, to close games off and add who ever the hell else you want to that. Add a guy LIKE simmons (size wise doesn't have to be simmons) or add a proper center to that and you can have everyone play up one position and be in a good position. Siakam has to just shoot 30 % which he has done above that in the past multiple times. OG has to keep shooting hte 3 point percentage he has and you have suddenly created the space you need. So any player they are getting would need to fit within that.


                    I also again don't understand the purpose of trading Siakam. Scottie is AMAZING but he currently is not our best overall offensive player if Siakam is here. Siakam for Simmons gets you worse offensively by a clear margin and doesn't get you closer to an all 6'9 line up. You just swapped out one guy for another .. plus the fact that one is clearly struggling in the mental health department.


                    The whole point is they are trying to be ahead of the curve in terms of team building. To build a team that has all a bunch of 2 way ... lets say Tier two level guys who are more athletic and stronger and longer than every other team in the NBA takes a ton of time. It is very different than building by accumulating a bunch of stars. Which likely won't ever happen. So this is the way you combat that. Plus as the games shift towards a more defensive style that is what will win out. Part of why Fred is struggling is because he isn't getting the foul calls he would normally get in the past. You basically have to be bigger faster stronger than the other team and power through.
                    Last edited by TrueTorontoFan; Mon Nov 1, 2021, 01:05 PM.

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                    • golden wrote: View Post

                      Suns already have three 3&D wings like OG: Bridges, Johnson & Crowder. They are stacked at that position. And they just paid Bridges.
                      Getting rid of OG isn't ideal because you would be giving up the teams best one on one defender to get Ayton. Ayton is good but I don't think its a trade worth exploring.

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                      • golden wrote: View Post

                        Suns already have three 3&D wings like OG: Bridges, Johnson & Crowder. They are stacked at that position. And they just paid Bridges.
                        That's a good point but if I was going to make an argument for this particular trade I'd say OG is an upgrade on all three and can play 3 or 4 for them. He's the type of top notch defender they were lacking in the finals. They went all in by paying CP3, so there might be some pressure to make their Marc Gasol move to get that much closer to a chip.

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                        • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post
                          Again they keep outlining what they want and everyone keeps trying to trade Siakam ... who frankly is better than OG in trades. They literally want everyone to be super versatile and lengthy AND athletic, and have offensive upside with good sound defensive principals. Siakam fits that in leaps and bounds.... so would it make sense to trade him. That is why I can understand trading FVV for Ben Simmons not that I want it but trading siakam doesn't make sense AND doesn't get us any better. You can play a closing line up of Siakam, OG, and Barnes, to close games off and add who ever the hell else you want to that. Add a guy LIKE simmons (size wise doesn't have to be simmons) or add a proper center to that and you can have everyone play up one position and be in a good position. Siakam has to just shoot 30 % which he has done above that in the past multiple times. OG has to keep shooting hte 3 point percentage he has and you have suddenly created the space you need. So any player they are getting would need to fit within that.


                          I also again don't understand the purpose of trading Siakam. Scottie is AMAZING but he currently is not our best overall offensive player if Siakam is here. Siakam for Simmons gets you worse offensively by a clear margin and doesn't get you closer to an all 6'9 line up. You just swapped out one guy for another .. plus the fact that one is clearly struggling in the mental health department.
                          Yep. The blueprint for a Raptor player is clear:

                          Physical attributes: 6'7" + with long wingspan, quick feet, high motor
                          BB Skills: ball-handling (at least grab & go ability), IQ/feel for the game, defensive minded & switchable
                          Character: coachable, hard worker/gym rat
                          Shooting: Not required. You take Nurse's Pill and we teach you that at night-school. lol.

                          Siakam fits that profile to a tee and then some. Why TF would we be trading him, unless we can get back 2 more like him? These type of guys don't grow on trees.

                          Comment


                          • Guys, let this thing breath for awhile. Patience!

                            Comment


                            • Primer wrote: View Post

                              You look at this as a negative of having too many forwards. That's not the right way to look at it. Having 3 starting quality forwards is by design and exactly what Masai and Bobby want. We don't want to run a traditional lineup, so don't assume we're gonna make trades to get us closer to a traditional 1-5 lineup.

                              Dragic and Boucher are on the trading block for sure but that's because they're expiring and don't really fit what we want to do (especially Dragic). We aren't going to use them to move one of our starting quality forwards because we want to start 3 forwards at a time, it's by design.
                              Not sure why you think I'm viewing it as a negative, I'm not. If I was, I wouldn't have been the one person on the board throwing my support behind drafting Barnes when literally everyone else wanted Suggs, Keon, Moody, Springer or Mann. I'm just talking ideas with my fellow Toronto Raptor fans here and I definitely am not throwing my ideas out there as absolute must do's. More like a "hey this is a great time to potentially add talent in an area of need, what do y'all think" scenario.

                              I hope to be wrong, but when I think of a line up of FVV, Barnes, OG, Siakam and Birch I'm not sure there's enough scoring there, especially in the playoffs when it becomes a half court game. At least with a guy like Ayton (as an example) you have a option in the post.

                              Comment


                              • slaw wrote: View Post
                                Guys, let this thing breath for awhile. Patience!
                                Apologies, didn't meant to get anyone riled up LOL. I agree, our best player hasn't even returned yet so we need to see how that goes.

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