Everything 2021-22 Free Agency / Off-Season

[The Claw Reborn]

No problem yeah only becomes a real problem in terms of crippling your ability to make moves when its a super max. Go look at John Walls contract right now or Westbrook or Lillard if you want to cry.

I think a regular poster (I just couldn’t remember who it was though but I think he would ) was so adamant last season that Westbrook and Bradley can be a good pairing and would be stupid for the Wizards to trade him to the Lakers for Kuzma, KCP and Montrez. Dude even desperately validated his point that Westbrook was once a MVP candidate racking up triple double numbers, why would the Wizards give him up for scrubs lol.

well could be buyer remorse now by the Lakers. While Wizards are off that ugly contract of his.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I think a regular poster (I just couldn’t remember who it was though but I think he would ) was so adamant last season that Westbrook and Bradley can be a good pairing and would be stupid for the Wizards to trade him to the Lakers for Kuzma, KCP and Montrez. Dude even desperately validated his point that Westbrook was once a MVP candidate racking up triple double numbers, why would the Wizards give him up for scrubs lol.

well could be buyer remorse now by the Lakers. While Wizards are off that ugly contract of his.

yeah look westbrook is a talented player but he only knows how to play one way although part of the lakers issue is dealing with AD not playing up to his potential. I don't think they win another chip in LA with lebron there. Westbrook works under very specific roster construction which is part of the issue and so yeah... I wouldn't want him and beal and him were a terrible pairing.

[planetmars]

Misunderstood your point then because all along I thought you wanted to trade for him now and not when he is available in a S/T but I would have expected you to pick it up nice and smooth especially when I mentioned that he could be potentially a rental….. Kudos to TrueTorontoFan. Lol.

If the Raptors trade for Ayton now, they'll have his RFA rights. So could match any offer, and keep him without losing him. Plus a sign and trade, is literally a sign then trade. Free agents are signed in the off season. If a team signs a guy and trades him, the team that gets him has him locked up for whatever contract length he signed to. And I believe S&T's have to at minimum be for 3 years (not including any options).

[Primer]

If the Raptors trade for Ayton now, they'll have his RFA rights. So could match any offer, and keep him without losing him. Plus a sign and trade, is literally a sign then trade. Free agents are signed in the off season. If a team signs a guy and trades him, the team that gets him has him locked up for whatever contract length he signed to. And I believe S&T's have to at minimum be for 3 years (not including any options).

Right. Claw is very confused. Even if Phoenix inexplicably wanted to trade Ayton during this season, he's an RFA and couldn't leave, therefore not a rental. He would either sign the max deal we offer him, or at worst sign a QO which means we get him for another season at a total bargain of $16M. Ayton isn't gonna do that instead of taking a max deal.

[golden]

I would not want to pay Ayton the max. I mean, is he really Gobert level elite on defense? Advanced stats don't seem to favor him that much. And if he doesn't have a good pick & roll partner (i.e. FVV vs. CP3), what happens to his offense? Do we stick him in the corner, like all of our other bigs? And what about in the playoffs, when teams go 5-out? How much value would you be getting out of that max contract, if he's not protecting the rim?

[planetmars]

We can keep going back and forth on this.. I will reply once now. But if we want to keep going, create a new thread in the trade forum and we can hash it out there so nobody else has to read this.

People are regurgitating in this forum about the Raptors not having depth and here you are minimizing the value of depth… but what I mainly implied was that both Harkless and Bagley are trade fillers but will serve as the 10th/ 11th man of the Sixers rotation. They can however step in when and If the primary guys like Tobias/ Embiid/ Drummond and Niang will sometime go down due to COVID protocol. Of course they ain’t winning a Championship with both Bagley and Harkless starting….who even would think about that…stop forcefeeding me with something I didn’t even say, lol. Van Vleet is the center piece of that trade. Yet you are so swallowed into a the short term idea that Harrison Barnes is a significant return for the Raptors. Maxey is.

Right you are giving them Fred, 2 deep bench players and 2 FRP's for Simmons and Maxey. So if Morey swallows his pride and is willing to take Fred, but has to give up both Maxey and Simmons then he lost the P/R battle. Secondly we got hosed on the deal since we gave up both Fred and a FRP for Maxey.

I am not overrating Maxey…And what are you talking about?….He is 21 years old…he is actually over-performing beyond that young age of his and playing a vital role in a contending team. Hindsight is 20/20 of course but would you have said that to a 21 year old Fred Van Vleet back then? The 2023 pick could be of lesser value by then especially if they are not tanking next season. Do you still see the Raptors tanking for 3 consecutive seasons? There is a higher chance that they may tank this season, why I did not consider including the 2022 pick.

You are trading essentially Fred and a FRP for Maxey. That's overrating the dude. Yes he's 21 years old. And is playing okay.. but he doesn't look like an all-star or anything. Why give up a fringe all-star in his prime and a FRP for the guy. That's overrating him. We just saw him play last night. He didn't look that great. Take a look at his box score in case you missed the game.

First the 2023 season may be a disaster because you got rid of two fringe all-star guys for Harrison Barnes and Maxey. That's not a contender. Secondly.. we have Tolzman, and I'm sure he'd get someone amazing in the high teens / low 20's. We don't have to have a lottery pick to have a great pick. OG was picked at 23. Pascal at 27. Fred went undrafted. Norm was a second rounder. I mean we have a pretty good history of drafting guys that were not in the lottery. I will not trade a FRP unless its for an upgrade. And if I'm trading one with a fringe all-star like Fred, Pascal or OG, then we better be getting back a star.

They solidify their chances having a Championship tested player in Siakam over a Wiggins and those young prospect. It’s lol for you to even include a Harden type player in this little discussion of ours.

You are offering Pascal for Wiggins and 3 former lottery picks (one of which was picked #2 overall). You remember what the Warriors had to go through in multiple seasons to get those picks right? And they are just giving them away for Pascal who's not even an all-star anymore? That type of package gets you a super star (like Harden), not a fringe all-star (like Pascal). And if the big salary we are getting back is playing just as good as the guy you are getting.. it's a terrible deal. Warriors are simply not doing it. And if you think they would then you don't really follow the Warriors.

How can you say an absolute statement like this as if you can foresee what will happen two years from now. I am not even going to prolong this especially having you stated absolute statement in the past like “ Svi is a better starter than GTJ “ then eventually danced around to retract it….I am not sure also what you are talking about “connections”? Max money and me giving Masai another chance to acquire a big time free agent would overrule what ever you seem so sure about. It does not mean Jokic is coming here but at least Masai has the financial resources to again try his luck and persuasion.

Nothing is absolute.. of course not.. Why not also save money for Embiid or Tatum or Luka? They'll be free agents one day too. Dream big right! Let's trade everyone now just so we can get in on those sweepstakes. Sounds like a great idea. If only other teams thought like this. Oh yeah, NY did.. and they ended up with Randle, Fournier and Derrick Rose.

they are being traded in exchange for very young prospects to surround Scottie Barnes, not take away the shine of Scottie Barnes. You seem hell bent that both Siakam and Van Vleet will net this team a superstar, not sure who that is. My trade proposal for those two players are very reasonable, don’t think I went a ten for the win scenario. If you are hoping what they can do in the playoffs, good luck to you.

I did consider all teams….but you are so ultra focus on the periphery just to disprove my point but hey if that is how you toot your horn so be it….

Simmons was the guy for Sacramento, Van Vleet for the Sixers and Maxey for the Raptors

Siakam for the Warriors and Young Prospects for the Raptors

Cap Space in 2023 to join the Joker Sweepstakes

The Warriors trade is so pie in the sky its never happening. And Maxey isn't that beloved of a prospect but you want to give Fred and a FRP pick away for him. And then you turn around and give a team another PG which they have plenty of. It's just a mess of a scenario and I chimed in. I'm sorry I did. Please continue to use this site as a blog where you don't want feedback.

[LJ2]

I would not want to pay Ayton the max. I mean, is he really Gobert level elite on defense? Advanced stats don't seem to favor him that much. And if he doesn't have a good pick & roll partner (i.e. FVV vs. CP3), what happens to his offense? Do we stick him in the corner, like all of our other bigs? And what about in the playoffs, when teams go 5-out? How much value would you be getting out of that max contract, if he's not protecting the rim?

Baby steps Golden, baby steps. Ayton would be a huge upgrade over anyone we have at C from day one. He has a post game so isn't completely reliant on pick & roll to get his points. Also young and still developing other parts of his game.

Raps are a ways away from being contenders so if nothing else Ayton would be a tradable asset if it didn't work out. We shouldn't be looking at the roster like it's a finished product. How many new players did we bring in for the championship year?

[golden]

Baby steps Golden, baby steps. Ayton would be a huge upgrade over anyone we have at C from day one. He has a post game so isn't completely reliant on pick & roll to get his points. Also young and still developing other parts of his game.

Raps are a ways away from being contenders so if nothing else Ayton would be a tradable asset if it didn't work out. We shouldn't be looking at the roster like it's a finished product. How many new players did we bring in for the championship year?

Cheaper option would be Thomas Bryant, who very efficient and can shoot 3s. Still only 24.

[TrueTorontoFan]

If the Raptors trade for Ayton now, they'll have his RFA rights. So could match any offer, and keep him without losing him. Plus a sign and trade, is literally a sign then trade. Free agents are signed in the off season. If a team signs a guy and trades him, the team that gets him has him locked up for whatever contract length he signed to. And I believe S&T's have to at minimum be for 3 years (not including any options).

yeah but the problem is they don't have the right type of contracts to put together to trade for those rights right this second.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I would not want to pay Ayton the max. I mean, is he really Gobert level elite on defense? Advanced stats don't seem to favor him that much. And if he doesn't have a good pick & roll partner (i.e. FVV vs. CP3), what happens to his offense? Do we stick him in the corner, like all of our other bigs? And what about in the playoffs, when teams go 5-out? How much value would you be getting out of that max contract, if he's not protecting the rim?

he isn't clint capela. He can rebound his defence is pretty solid. He does have some touch inside of the arc. He isn't a zero level scorer. I think he will not be worth a max deal but if you want to gamble on him I wouldn't complain either. Personally the smart move is wait till next year and make a trade for poetl or trade for poetl in the off-season. Alternatively create cap room for him.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Cheaper option would be Thomas Bryant, who very efficient and can shoot 3s. Still only 24.

Big issue with Thomas Bryant is his injury history. Since being drafted he has played the following amount of games.

Year	Number of Games
17/18	15
18/19	72
19/20	46
20/21	10

He hasn't played this year because he is still injured. If he comes at a cheap price sure but that would be my concern.

[planetmars]

yeah but the problem is they don't have the right type of contracts to put together to trade for those rights right this second.

I mean he makes $12M. I'm sure a package could be put together. OG and Birch for Ayton and Saric for example works right now.

I don't think Phoenix does that trade. They are better with Ayton than without for the season. But putting a package together isn't really a show stopper. He doesn't have some weird poison pill deal or something.

[planetmars]

Cheaper option would be Thomas Bryant, who very efficient and can shoot 3s. Still only 24.

I really like Bryant.. he was trying to put the Wizards on his back last season as they were trying to get into the bubble. And he almost did it until he got hurt. But that injury risk is real as TrueTorontoFan outlined above.

[TrueTorontoFan]

BTW I am not saying I am against trading any player. So let the record be known for EVERYONE. I just don't think we should make a trade for the sake of making a trade. I only included in-season moves because some of the people that would be worth getting only make sense in the off-season.
Players I would target this year during the season include:

Nurkic
Beal (likely not going to happen because of the cost).
Hayes
Brown (Moses)
NAW (this one would be hard).
Turner
Naz Reid
KAT -if he wants out but I think they will make the playoffs and be fine.
Ben Simmons
Noel

Out of that if I were to make a big big trade I would opt for KAT. Beal likely won't happen because of what it would take to get him and it would be a waste. He also isn't a number one guy. If you can somehow add him and only give up one of your core pieces then sure we could talk. Like if you could get him for GTJ and FVV and picks YES 1000 times yes I would do it in a heartbeat but for now, I am good. The KAT thing is a pipe dream

Turner makes sense for a pseudo bigger swing piece where you are giving up assets.


Naz Reid would be nice but again he would be a smaller center. I would opt for either Hayes, or Turner. If you want the ultimate swing big piece go grab a guy like Ben Simmons.


Ben Simmons would be an ultimate gamble pick. I think it would be tough because you already basically have Ben Simmons with a jump shot in Scottie Barnes. For Ben Simmons I wouldn't be looking at trying to target Maxey. I would focus on JUST getting Simmons. Simmons for FVV and two unprotected picks and you add in maybe Flynn. The issue with this is you are hoping and praying the guy actually still likes to play basketball. I don't think he really wants to be great and loves the game. In my opinion, would be a gamble but it is a gamble you make to try the whole positionless thing so you have pascal, scottie, simmons, OG, and GTJ. OG and GTJ can space the floor. Scottie can also space the floor if necessary but they can all break down their man.

Reason why I am not big on Maxey. Simple, he looks good but not good enough to be a starting level guy on a championship team in the future. So I don't wanna give up current and future assets to get him. I trust our scouting staff. Even though I did say it's a bit of a crapshoot, we have seen what happens when you have no depth. Right now we have no depth because we have traded away a lot of our depth pieces away and we are now restocking the cupboard. Simmons's contract is one that is long-term so you have him locked up for a while.
You share ball-handling responsibilities between Simmons, Scottie, and Pascal.

The other one is Turner. I would try to do a deal that is less heavy on picks. I would center it around GTJ. I think GTJ is good but he chucks, and we need a center. I think what you give up in GTJ you get back in terms of offense with Turner. Turner can space the floor. I think he is a tad overrated defensively. Slightly, injury-prone but definitely worth it. Still young and developing. He would provide a rim protection threat. It also allows precious to slowly develop as birch continues to get healthy and you have a solid center rotation. I think precious can play both the center and the power forward spot so there are his minutes. You can toss in Boucher in that deal as well. Alternatively, you trade precious but I don't think Masai will trade someone he literally just gushed over less than 6 months ago. I suppose you could just add in a pick.

There is a cohort of fans who want Scottie to be the guy TODAY. I don't think he is the guy today and needs to be that guy. He can be the guy next year and just let him develop. The worst thing you can do is give someone too much and regret it because you can't go back. They give him more duties all the time. Additionally, not a FVV fan although I think he works so well off-ball. What is the point in trading one of your top guys who is a fringe all-star for a guy who is likely not going to be on that level just for the sake of it? Plus you add picks as well getting rid of future assets. I am not just talking about Claw. There are a number of fans who want to do a similar trade.

That is the thing about it. draft picks are always most valuable right before they are picked unless they are lebron or something of that nature. Kuminga will be alright I think but he has a LONG way to go. Wiseman will have to show a LOT to make me want him on this team.

I think we need to stand pat and make one of the marginal moves OR make a move for a guy like Turner. right now we should be in asset collection or retention mode. We are building. We are not tearing down. We got lucky by getting into the lottery and we will likely be lucky again this year by having a late lottery pick or a pick in the 15-20 range. It is also a long year.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I mean he makes $12M. I'm sure a package could be put together. OG and Birch for Ayton and Saric for example works right now.

I don't think Phoenix does that trade. They are better with Ayton than without for the season. But putting a package together isn't really a show stopper. He doesn't have some weird poison pill deal or something.

I thought he made less which was part of the problem. I stand corrected. I wouldn't do that trade though.