Everything 2021-22 Free Agency / Off-Season

[bertarapsfan]

Still like the idea of nabbing Markaneen from the bulls if the price is right. Doesn't seem like they are too high on him and he could be had in RFA

[inthepaint]

Still like the idea of nabbing Markaneen from the bulls if the price is right. Doesn't seem like they are too high on him and he could be had in RFA

To me, that's the play if Lowry walks and we're left holding the empty bag of cap space. Markkenen is the target.

What my gut tells me though, is that there won't be teams willing and able to sign Lowry outright with cap space. So he won't walk. We'll re-sign him, but we'll be overly picky with trade offers for him. So we'll give him another 3 yr deal, taking away development minutes from Flynn, Trent and the new lottery pick (if it's a guard), but also not making the ECF over what will be Siakam & Fred's prime years. Then in 2025 we'll sign Lowry again for an older vet minimum and trade Siakam and/or Fred (by then both over 30 and with lower value in the market). Then we'll start a proper rebuild.

It's not the path I'd go, as it's a slow and truncated rebuild that doesn't maximize value, but it's how it could very well go down. The reason is that, for better or worse, we ascertain a massive premium on Lowry's actual value. For us (and maybe the FO), he's the face of 8 years of good basketball, a champioship, and guy that will get a statue (depending on the person age's you kinda grew up watching Lowry). For the rest of the league, he's a solid player that can help your team contend if you have other pieces, but he's also a 35 year old PG that just missed the playoffs.

This difference in perception is a strong gravitational force for him to not be traded. Which will be fun in the sense that we'll get to watch him longer in a Raptor jersey, but it will also delay our rebuild.

[bertarapsfan]

To me, that's the play if Lowry walks and we're left holding the empty bag of cap space. Markkenen is the target.

What my gut tells me though, is that there won't be teams willing and able to sign Lowry outright with cap space. So he won't walk. We'll re-sign him, but we'll be overly picky with trade offers for him. So we'll give him another 3 yr deal, taking away development minutes from Flynn, Trent and the new lottery pick (if it's a guard), but also not making the ECF over what will be Siakam & Fred's prime years. Then in 2025 we'll sign Lowry again for an older vet minimum and trade Siakam and/or Fred (by then both over 30 and with lower value in the market). Then we'll start a proper rebuild.

It's not the path I'd go, as it's a slow and truncated rebuild that doesn't maximize value, but it's how it could very well go down. The reason is that, for better or worse, we ascertain a massive premium on Lowry's actual value. For us (and maybe the FO), he's the face of 8 years of good basketball, a champioship, and guy that will get a statue (depending on the person age's you kinda grew up watching Lowry). For the rest of the league, he's a solid player that can help your team contend if you have other pieces, but he's also a 35 year old PG that just missed the playoffs.

This difference in perception is a strong gravitational force for him to not be traded. Which will be fun in the sense that we'll get to watch him longer in a Raptor jersey, but it will also delay our rebuild.

If we want the best value for Lowry we all should be cheering for the suns this playoffs. CP3 in the last 2 years has helped to revitalize 2 franchises. Teams around the league who maybe are just outside the playoffs or starting to build something with young talent may look as say shit if the suns and thunder can do it why cant we. We need a CP3 type guy to help lead our young guys and be a veteran while still being a top 2-3 player on the team wonder if there is a CP3 type dude available? Oh wait there is? and he already has a championship?
The obvious team for sign and trade are Sixers, heat maybe lakers.
But i would count out someone like the Knicks, Twolves and my favorite who would be a perfect fit for a CP3 type revitalization... the Pelicans who are by all accounts looking to move off Lonzo.
Lowry,Ingram, Zion why cant they be next year suns?

[planetmars]

If we want the best value for Lowry we all should be cheering for the suns this playoffs. CP3 in the last 2 years has helped to revitalize 2 franchises. Teams around the league who maybe are just outside the playoffs or starting to build something with young talent may look as say shit if the suns and thunder can do it why cant we. We need a CP3 type guy to help lead our young guys and be a veteran while still being a top 2-3 player on the team wonder if there is a CP3 type dude available? Oh wait there is? and he already has a championship?
The obvious team for sign and trade are Sixers, heat maybe lakers.
But i would count out someone like the Knicks, Twolves and my favorite who would be a perfect fit for a CP3 type revitalization... the Pelicans who are by all accounts looking to move off Lonzo.
Lowry,Ingram, Zion why cant they be next year suns?

The Suns don't have to advance to already show Paul's impact. Suns hadn't made the playoffs for something like 7 years.. and now they are the 2nd best team in the West. And only really made two changes in the off season (brought in Paul and Crowder). OKC took the Rockets (before dysfunction came in) to a 7 game series, and a Harden block shot in the last second.

Lowry would be in demand, but Toronto will only move him to a team that makes sense for Kyle. It may not make the most business sense.. but Masai and Bobby are going to make sure Lowry is happy. If Kyle just wants $$$ and that's the only thing he cares about.. then yeah a team like New Orleans makes a lot of sense. But if Kyle wants to play for a contender and only one.. Masai will try to move him to one.

[G__Deane]

To me, that's the play if Lowry walks and we're left holding the empty bag of cap space. Markkenen is the target.

What my gut tells me though, is that there won't be teams willing and able to sign Lowry outright with cap space. So he won't walk. We'll re-sign him, but we'll be overly picky with trade offers for him. So we'll give him another 3 yr deal, taking away development minutes from Flynn, Trent and the new lottery pick (if it's a guard), but also not making the ECF over what will be Siakam & Fred's prime years. Then in 2025 we'll sign Lowry again for an older vet minimum and trade Siakam and/or Fred (by then both over 30 and with lower value in the market). Then we'll start a proper rebuild.

It's not the path I'd go, as it's a slow and truncated rebuild that doesn't maximize value, but it's how it could very well go down. The reason is that, for better or worse, we ascertain a massive premium on Lowry's actual value. For us (and maybe the FO), he's the face of 8 years of good basketball, a champioship, and guy that will get a statue (depending on the person age's you kinda grew up watching Lowry). For the rest of the league, he's a solid player that can help your team contend if you have other pieces, but he's also a 35 year old PG that just missed the playoffs.

This difference in perception is a strong gravitational force for him to not be traded. Which will be fun in the sense that we'll get to watch him longer in a Raptor jersey, but it will also delay our rebuild.

Hot take: If they sign Lowry here for another 4 years as above, he'll be booed in the final 2 years, something I don't want to see.
I'm in favour of a S&T now but the alternative is a MAX 2 years deal at 20M for me.

Saying "this was supposed to be Lowry's final productive year for the last X years" is silly as one day it will be and you don't want to be the team holding the bag at the inevitable end.

[DanH]

Hot take: If they sign Lowry here for another 4 years as above, he'll be booed in the final 2 years, something I don't want to see.
I'm in favour of a S&T now but the alternative is a MAX 2 years deal at 20M for me.

Saying "this was supposed to be Lowry's final productive year for the last X years" is silly as one day it will be and you don't want to be the team holding the bag at the inevitable end.

Right but you also don't need to walk away for fear of being the one holding that bag so long as you are smart about your offers.

The Raptors should probably offer only a 2 year term. I'm OK with them offering more than 20M to get that. Better to go 25x2 than 20x3, for example.

[A.I]

Hot take: If they sign Lowry here for another 4 years as above, he'll be booed in the final 2 years, something I don't want to see.
I'm in favour of a S&T now but the alternative is a MAX 2 years deal at 20M for me.

Saying "this was supposed to be Lowry's final productive year for the last X years" is silly as one day it will be and you don't want to be the team holding the bag at the inevitable end.

If he gets booed by Raptor fans for being 38 years old after everything hes done, its time the Raptors move cities. Toronto fans don't deserve them.

[inthepaint]

If we want the best value for Lowry we all should be cheering for the suns this playoffs. CP3 in the last 2 years has helped to revitalize 2 franchises. Teams around the league who maybe are just outside the playoffs or starting to build something with young talent may look as say shit if the suns and thunder can do it why cant we. We need a CP3 type guy to help lead our young guys and be a veteran while still being a top 2-3 player on the team wonder if there is a CP3 type dude available? Oh wait there is? and he already has a championship?
The obvious team for sign and trade are Sixers, heat maybe lakers.
But i would count out someone like the Knicks, Twolves and my favorite who would be a perfect fit for a CP3 type revitalization... the Pelicans who are by all accounts looking to move off Lonzo.
Lowry,Ingram, Zion why cant they be next year suns?

I agree. Lowry will have different suitors, even outside the usual contenders we've been talking about. The "problem" won't be lack of suitors/offers, is that we likely won't be smart and objective about said offers. No one knows exactly how the FO sees it, but if it's anything like the fans, we'll place an idyllic value on Lowry that is significantly different from his actual market value. We'll pompously turn our noses at a lot of the offers, and will place a lot of subjective/emotional barriers to a move, including if it's an ideal destination for Lowry that he graciously gives us permission to trade him to. Sign-and-trades are already difficult to pull off, and when you add that element, it makes it pretty unlikely.

That wouldn't be my choice approach but I feel it's pretty likely what we'll happen. For better or worse, we won't get a return for him that will help continue the teams rejuvenation/rebuilding of assets, but at least we'll get a the warm-fuzzy feeling of Lowry retiring here.

[golden]

I agree. Lowry will have different suitors, even outside the usual contenders we've been talking about. The "problem" won't be lack of suitors/offers, is that we likely won't be smart and objective about said offers. No one knows exactly how the FO sees it, but if it's anything like the fans, we'll place an idyllic value on Lowry that is significantly different from his actual market value. We'll pompously turn our noses at a lot of the offers, and will place a lot of subjective/emotional barriers to a move, including if it's an ideal destination for Lowry that he graciously gives us permission to trade him to. Sign-and-trades are already difficult to pull off, and when you add that element, it makes it pretty unlikely.

That wouldn't be my choice approach but I feel it's pretty likely what we'll happen. For better or worse, we won't get a return for him that will help continue the teams rejuvenation/rebuilding of assets, but at least we'll get a the warm-fuzzy feeling of Lowry retiring here.

Yeah it's risky, but Lowry @ 2 yrs + team option could become a valuable trade asset.

[bertarapsfan]

The Suns don't have to advance to already show Paul's impact. Suns hadn't made the playoffs for something like 7 years.. and now they are the 2nd best team in the West. And only really made two changes in the off season (brought in Paul and Crowder). OKC took the Rockets (before dysfunction came in) to a 7 game series, and a Harden block shot in the last second.

Lowry would be in demand, but Toronto will only move him to a team that makes sense for Kyle. It may not make the most business sense.. but Masai and Bobby are going to make sure Lowry is happy. If Kyle just wants $$$ and that's the only thing he cares about.. then yeah a team like New Orleans makes a lot of sense. But if Kyle wants to play for a contender and only one.. Masai will try to move him to one.

I think Kyle will also have stability in the back of his mind. He has watched his counter parts of his era, CP3, Russ, John Wall ping pong from team to team grabbing them for a year to see if they can contend then shipping them off when it doesnt. Somewhere like Philly of L.A might try it for a year and ship him out for another guy if they dont hit it on the first year. Where as a younger team would probably want him along longer term for a few playoff run to help teach the young guys.

[G__Deane]

If he gets booed by Raptor fans for being 38 years old after everything hes done, its time the Raptors move cities. Toronto fans don't deserve them.

Fans are fans.
We know they cheer and primarily boo for what have you done for me lately vis a vis the contract.

Siakam is partially being criticized for what he makes as much for his on-court pay. If Kyle ends up being mediocre to bad on the court in the final year or two of a 3 year deal, he'll be booed and criticized over a great season 3-4 years earlier. He's not Kobe or Tim Duncan.

[A.I]

Fans are fans.
We know they cheer and primarily boo for what have you done for me lately vis a vis the contract.

Siakam is partially being criticized for what he makes as much for his on-court pay. If Kyle ends up being mediocre to bad on the court in the final year or two of a 3 year deal, he'll be booed and criticized over a great season 3-4 years earlier. He's not Kobe or Tim Duncan.

I highly doubt it, doesn't matter what his contract is. You wanna blame the front office for giving him that contract? Go for it, but Kyle will be in his late 30s, pretty obvious his play will get worse. He isn't Kobe or Duncan, but for the Raptors, he is on that level because he is currently the greatest player in franchise history.

[GOLDBLUM]

Anyone who would boo Kyle Lowry would have to be a real Deaner. But hey, you exist, so I suppose there would be some.

And inthepaint... man, it's hilarious how much Masai hurt you by creating cap-space, going after a generational talent. How you can have so little faith in the face of all the incredible work our management has done baffles me. I respect a lot of what you post but the way you go on and on about your perception of management's inability to get the job done... you really don't deserve Masai to sign on the dotted line.

Thankfully, I have more faith in him, and his staff than you do, and I'm optimistic he'll be back to show us why he's the best executive in sports.

[G__Deane]

Still obsessed with me....too funny....like a sad clown

[NoPropsneeded]

To me, that's the play if Lowry walks and we're left holding the empty bag of cap space. Markkenen is the target.

What my gut tells me though, is that there won't be teams willing and able to sign Lowry outright with cap space. So he won't walk. We'll re-sign him, but we'll be overly picky with trade offers for him. So we'll give him another 3 yr deal, taking away development minutes from Flynn, Trent and the new lottery pick (if it's a guard), but also not making the ECF over what will be Siakam & Fred's prime years. Then in 2025 we'll sign Lowry again for an older vet minimum and trade Siakam and/or Fred (by then both over 30 and with lower value in the market). Then we'll start a proper rebuild.

It's not the path I'd go, as it's a slow and truncated rebuild that doesn't maximize value, but it's how it could very well go down. The reason is that, for better or worse, we ascertain a massive premium on Lowry's actual value. For us (and maybe the FO), he's the face of 8 years of good basketball, a champioship, and guy that will get a statue (depending on the person age's you kinda grew up watching Lowry). For the rest of the league, he's a solid player that can help your team contend if you have other pieces, but he's also a 35 year old PG that just missed the playoffs.

This difference in perception is a strong gravitational force for him to not be traded. Which will be fun in the sense that we'll get to watch him longer in a Raptor jersey, but it will also delay our rebuild.

This is such a terrible take. I wonder if some of you even follow the team or watch the games. It's pretty clear that Lowry is very comfortable giving up touches to the young guys, he sat basically the whole season and is all smiles. Also, "rebuilding" is such a crapshoot and has never been a viable strategy. The only time it has (kinda) worked in recent memory is the process in Philly and that took the better part of a decade. Which then resulted in Hinkie resigning and the 6ers still squandering chances at a title by making boneheaded moves like keeping Horford over Butler.

The raptors bread and butter is finding diamonds in the rough through elite scouting and developing them through elite player development i.e the G league. Rebuilding is for incompetent FO's that don't know how to put resources towards scouting and development. Retooling is where it is at and it is what the Raptors do and have been doing for a good while now, to think they'll do anything otherwise is foolish. Develop your guys, add pieces, move said pieces if an opportunity arises (i.e Kawhi) rinse and repeat all while staying competitive.

Some of y'all love to play arm chair GM, instead of observing how the team has been operating and giving an accurate analysis based on years of evidence. I'm not saying you're not allowed to do that but just don't expect to be taken seriously if you're going to play that role.