Everything 2021-22 Free Agency / Off-Season

[G__Deane]

lol just snowed today

Mid 30's with humidity a few days ago .... 9 and blustery rain today .... but no snow

[golden]

lol just snowed today

It’s your fault, man. Good thing we’re not hosting the NBA finals this year. That would be the final nail in the coffin to scare off free agents.

[Demographic Shift]

As the first rounds of the playoffs unfold it will be interesting to keep your eye on who goes out and how they go out and what affect that might have on the future of one Kyle Lowry.

The purported suitors at the trade deadline were the Heat..Hinkies...Lakers and possibly the Clips.

The Heat look like they are going to get dusted. Would Lowry be that big a difference maker for the Heat over Dragic ? Enough that Lowry would have reversed the possible sweep at the hands of the Bucks ? Would Reilly make a move to use all his cap space on Lowry and renounce bird rights on Dragic for a run at it with Lowry ?

The Hinkies are taking the Whiz apart piece by piece. Its not even close so far. However next up is going to be either of the Hawks/Knicks and then if they get by one of the Nets/Bucks. If the Hinkies backcourt/ball handlers get exposed by one the Hawks or Knicks or Nets or Bucks then its possible Morey takes another run at Lowry. Also bears watching how much Maxey or Thybulle or Korkmaz play during the playoffs to see which of these guys the Hinkies value.

The Lakers go as Lebron and Davis go. If they come up short or even if they don't and want to reload would they want to have Lowry be that guy they think is a missing piece ? The Lakers will be at the cap or close to it with about 7 contracts... Would we want what they have on salary match ? It might be one of Kuzma or Harrell or ? ... and a 2027 FRP (they gave the rest of them to New Orleans)

The clips have nothing in the backcourt. Yet a serious impediment is the belief in Torontos ownership group and the front office is that dealing with the Clips is like dealing with Iran or North Korea or China. They view the Clips as a rogue regime. But in the NBA money talks and if its Zubac and the kid Mann and a 2031 FRP then maybe a sign and trade can happen. The Clips S&T is a lot more supposing than reality but its my tenforthewin gene ...

[S.R.]

I'd say Toronto as a FA destination is not much different from most NBA markets. Important factor is the very limited number of times this franchise has actually had the cap space to chase a big ticket FA. In its entire history, it really hasn't gone through a full on roster tear down like the Lakers did after Kobe. Raps have very rarely had a cap sheet with space. So a lot of those offseasons are moot.

Like Dan said a couple summers the team did have meaningful space and actually got premier (at the time) guys. They needed a SF when they signed Hedo, who was a top name that summer with the Orlando Finals run on his resume, and Carroll was a SF when they needed one and a top name as the glue guy from those pretty successful Hawks teams. Then we had the Giannis whiff.

Otherwise, there was not 1 summer when this org had max cap space lined up with a top 5 player's UFA, as far as I can recall. So some of the debate is moot anyway on that point.

Early on some guys left the Raptors - they were an expansion team and they sucked and that's what happens. It's really nothing personal.

Yeah, now we've got Kawhi leaving and Giannis turning us down. But Kawhi going to LAC meant he also turned down Lebron and the Lakers. Giannis also turned down a chance to sign with Miami. Kawhi wanted to go home and Giannis wanted to stay home and the Raptors certainly weren't the only ones left on the dance floor alone.

I always think of the post championship Mavs, Cuban blew apart half his roster and spent a couple offseasons chasing big name FA's. He was convinced he could retool his ageing team that way. He couldn't. Even in a warm, major US city with a massive tax break and a recent championship and the fabled billionaire owner set up, best he could get was Harrison Barnes - his own Hedo.

Basically most teams are in the Raptors situation, it's not personal. Really you do just have Lakers, NY, and Miami with an advantage then you have everyone else. That's the whole league. They've tried to fix it with salary structures and bird rights but what more can they do.

Anyway, it's a non issue most of the time. Max FA space is usually on the other side of tearing your team apart. Raptors aren't in that neighbourhood right now.

[G__Deane]

I'd say Toronto as a FA destination is not much different from most NBA markets. Important factor is the very limited number of times this franchise has actually had the cap space to chase a big ticket FA. In its entire history, it really hasn't gone through a full on roster tear down like the Lakers did after Kobe. Raps have very rarely had a cap sheet with space. So a lot of those offseasons are moot.

Like Dan said a couple summers the team did have meaningful space and actually got premier (at the time) guys. They needed a SF when they signed Hedo, who was a top name that summer with the Orlando Finals run on his resume, and Carroll was a SF when they needed one and a top name as the glue guy from those pretty successful Hawks teams. Then we had the Giannis whiff.

Otherwise, there was not 1 summer when this org had max cap space lined up with a top 5 player's UFA, as far as I can recall. So some of the debate is moot anyway on that point.

Early on some guys left the Raptors - they were an expansion team and they sucked and that's what happens. It's really nothing personal.

Yeah, now we've got Kawhi leaving and Giannis turning us down. But Kawhi going to LAC meant he also turned down Lebron and the Lakers. Giannis also turned down a chance to sign with Miami. Kawhi wanted to go home and Giannis wanted to stay home and the Raptors certainly weren't the only ones left on the dance floor alone.

I always think of the post championship Mavs, Cuban blew apart half his roster and spent a couple offseasons chasing big name FA's. He was convinced he could retool his ageing team that way. He couldn't. Even in a warm, major US city with a massive tax break and a recent championship and the fabled billionaire owner set up, best he could get was Harrison Barnes - his own Hedo.

Basically most teams are in the Raptors situation, it's not personal. Really you do just have Lakers, NY, and Miami with an advantage then you have everyone else. That's the whole league. They've tried to fix it with salary structures and bird rights but what more can they do.

Anyway, it's a non issue most of the time. Max FA space is usually on the other side of tearing your team apart. Raptors aren't in that neighbourhood right now.

Good post.

[golden]

I'd say Toronto as a FA destination is not much different from most NBA markets. Important factor is the very limited number of times this franchise has actually had the cap space to chase a big ticket FA. In its entire history, it really hasn't gone through a full on roster tear down like the Lakers did after Kobe. Raps have very rarely had a cap sheet with space. So a lot of those offseasons are moot.

Like Dan said a couple summers the team did have meaningful space and actually got premier (at the time) guys. They needed a SF when they signed Hedo, who was a top name that summer with the Orlando Finals run on his resume, and Carroll was a SF when they needed one and a top name as the glue guy from those pretty successful Hawks teams. Then we had the Giannis whiff.

Otherwise, there was not 1 summer when this org had max cap space lined up with a top 5 player's UFA, as far as I can recall. So some of the debate is moot anyway on that point.

Early on some guys left the Raptors - they were an expansion team and they sucked and that's what happens. It's really nothing personal.

Yeah, now we've got Kawhi leaving and Giannis turning us down. But Kawhi going to LAC meant he also turned down Lebron and the Lakers. Giannis also turned down a chance to sign with Miami. Kawhi wanted to go home and Giannis wanted to stay home and the Raptors certainly weren't the only ones left on the dance floor alone.

I always think of the post championship Mavs, Cuban blew apart half his roster and spent a couple offseasons chasing big name FA's. He was convinced he could retool his ageing team that way. He couldn't. Even in a warm, major US city with a massive tax break and a recent championship and the fabled billionaire owner set up, best he could get was Harrison Barnes - his own Hedo.

Basically most teams are in the Raptors situation, it's not personal. Really you do just have Lakers, NY, and Miami with an advantage then you have everyone else. That's the whole league. They've tried to fix it with salary structures and bird rights but what more can they do.

Anyway, it's a non issue most of the time. Max FA space is usually on the other side of tearing your team apart. Raptors aren't in that neighbourhood right now.

Raptors got an interview with LaMarcus Aldridge in 2015 and an aging Steve Nash in 2012 (and dodged a bullet there). Those are perhaps the only 2 high profile recruitments that I remember. Otherwise, we're not even getting meetings.

The other thing is that if a marquee free agent really wants to join a franchise with limited cap space, the team is usually able to dump salaries and facilitate trades or S&Ts, or other salary gymnastics to make that happen. That happened with Lebron/Wade/Bosh and Durant going to the Warriors.

But the new trend is where free agents to-be aren't even waiting for free agency. They're trying to force trades a year before, or even earlier, like Harden. Raps benefited massively from that with Kawhi, so the focus now might have to shift to developing young assets for opportunistic trades + free agent retention. The problem with that is that I haven't seen the Raptors mentioned on many lists of preferred trade destinations when those disgruntled superstar trade demands start to surface. Can only recall Toronto being linked in rumors to Porzingis and Beal, and of course the Giannis debacle. Kawhi not staying even a frickin year, on a championship team, definitely set the franchise back.

[LJ2]

I'd say Toronto as a FA destination is not much different from most NBA markets. Important factor is the very limited number of times this franchise has actually had the cap space to chase a big ticket FA. In its entire history, it really hasn't gone through a full on roster tear down like the Lakers did after Kobe. Raps have very rarely had a cap sheet with space. So a lot of those offseasons are moot.

Like Dan said a couple summers the team did have meaningful space and actually got premier (at the time) guys. They needed a SF when they signed Hedo, who was a top name that summer with the Orlando Finals run on his resume, and Carroll was a SF when they needed one and a top name as the glue guy from those pretty successful Hawks teams. Then we had the Giannis whiff.

Otherwise, there was not 1 summer when this org had max cap space lined up with a top 5 player's UFA, as far as I can recall. So some of the debate is moot anyway on that point.

Early on some guys left the Raptors - they were an expansion team and they sucked and that's what happens. It's really nothing personal.

Yeah, now we've got Kawhi leaving and Giannis turning us down. But Kawhi going to LAC meant he also turned down Lebron and the Lakers. Giannis also turned down a chance to sign with Miami. Kawhi wanted to go home and Giannis wanted to stay home and the Raptors certainly weren't the only ones left on the dance floor alone.

I always think of the post championship Mavs, Cuban blew apart half his roster and spent a couple offseasons chasing big name FA's. He was convinced he could retool his ageing team that way. He couldn't. Even in a warm, major US city with a massive tax break and a recent championship and the fabled billionaire owner set up, best he could get was Harrison Barnes - his own Hedo.

Basically most teams are in the Raptors situation, it's not personal. Really you do just have Lakers, NY, and Miami with an advantage then you have everyone else. That's the whole league. They've tried to fix it with salary structures and bird rights but what more can they do.

Anyway, it's a non issue most of the time. Max FA space is usually on the other side of tearing your team apart. Raptors aren't in that neighbourhood right now.

You're telling me the reason the Raps have failed to sign a superstar in free agency is because we haven't had the cap space? Or is it the Raps have never created cap space to sign a superstar free agent because we're never high on the list of places they want to play in?

Even PJ Tucker turned down more money to play for Houston. Wes Mathews chose Dallas over Toronto if rumors of Raps wanting to add him were true.

LA and New York are definitely at the top of the list, but the problem is when guys are preferring destinations like Clevland over Toronto because it's not Canada.

Winning helps, but there is still a long way to go in changing the mindset of American players. Perhaps the bigger sponsorship dollars which comes from being a global brand will help sway them in time.

[golden]

You're telling me the reason the Raps have failed to sign a superstar in free agency is because we haven't had the cap space? Or is it the Raps have never created cap space to sign a superstar free agent because we're never high on the list of places they want to play in?

Even PJ Tucker turned down more money to play for Houston. Wes Mathews chose Dallas over Toronto if rumors of Raps wanting to add him were true.

LA and New York are definitely at the top of the list, but the problem is when guys are preferring destinations like Clevland over Toronto because it's not Canada.

Winning helps, but there is still a long way to go in changing the mindset of American players. Perhaps the bigger sponsorship dollars which comes from being a global brand will help sway them in time.

Was that a trick question, or a just a punch to the gut? lol.

[planetmars]

Well Harden had Milwaukee on his list.. the first rule of thumb in attracting a free agent (besides cap space) is having a star on that team already. Nobody wants to play by themselves. Even Kawhi begged LAC to get another star to play with before he would join.

Masai has to get that A list ticket.

[S.R.]

You're telling me the reason the Raps have failed to sign a superstar in free agency is because we haven't had the cap space?.

Absolutely, yes. Have we already forgotten the management dynamics pre-Masai? We had years of relatively short term guys trying to save their jobs and screwing up. Colangelo had tenure and goodwill and was perpetually making short term moves. Masai lining up cap space to make Giannis an offer was 100% the first time we had an executive with the long term stability, ability, and vision to try a move like that. Tim Lieweke helped bring that stability and thinking to this organization. It did not exist before, we cycled through GM's and coaches fast and there was a lot of save-my-own-ass decision making. No one was dealing with stuff on the strategic level that Masai does, e.g. hey maybe we should have a multi-year salary plan to make a top FA a pitch when his current contract expires. I believe that's our history of management incompetence and not a deliberate ownership & management level M.O. of 'We're not getting a top FA anyway, so let's not bother trying.' Do you really think it was the latter?

Some of that reflected in this organization never having the balls for a tear down. Always just trying to bridge to another season of mediocrity up until the success of the We The North era. No one at the Raptors or MLSE had the guts to blow a team apart.

[G__Deane]

Raptors got an interview with LaMarcus Aldridge in 2015 and an aging Steve Nash in 2012 (and dodged a bullet there). Those are perhaps the only 2 high profile recruitments that I remember. Otherwise, we're not even getting meetings.

Oh we got a pity meeting out of Kawhi involving a helicopter

[golden]

Absolutely, yes. Have we already forgotten the management dynamics pre-Masai? We had years of relatively short term guys trying to save their jobs and screwing up. Colangelo had tenure and goodwill and was perpetually making short term moves. Masai lining up cap space to make Giannis an offer was 100% the first time we had an executive with the long term stability, ability, and vision to try a move like that. Tim Lieweke helped bring that stability and thinking to this organization. It did not exist before, we cycled through GM's and coaches fast and there was a lot of save-my-own-ass decision making. No one was dealing with stuff on the strategic level that Masai does, e.g. hey maybe we should have a multi-year salary plan to make a top FA a pitch when his current contract expires. I believe that's our history of management incompetence and not a deliberate ownership & management level M.O. of 'We're not getting a top FA anyway, so let's not bother trying.' Do you really think it was the latter?

Some of that reflected in this organization never having the balls for a tear down. Always just trying to bridge to another season of mediocrity up until the success of the We The North era. No one at the Raptors or MLSE had the guts to blow a team apart.

And how did that work out?

[GOLDBLUM]

And how did that work out?

"If at first you try and don't succeed, never try again." -- golden

[MixxAOR]

I think people rarely talk about how NBA is not 2k and this is real human beings you deal with

[LJ2]

https://twitter.com/AhnFireDigital/s...600215558?s=19

Interesting.