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DanH wrote: View Post
I agree this is unlikely to happen. But it is a fair offer. That sort of offer would not fetch a true superstar of the Lillard variety, it's an offer for a borderline all-NBA/all-star guy.
You can call Wiseman a pick but he's not. Picks are like new cars - they lose half their value when you drive them off the lot. Now he's just a very expensive prospect who has not really impressed early on.
The 2022 pick is likely in the 20's. So it's a mid-lotto pick, a mid-1st and a late 1st, plus Wiseman, and the Raps take on Wiggins (and don't be fooled, the Warriors absolutely want off that deal).
As for likely: literally every deal is more likely not to occur than to occur.
Harden Territory.
Love Pascal but he isn’t in that tier.
Last edited by Demographic Shift; Wed Jun 30, 2021, 10:05 AM.There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
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I didnt give my two cents right away on this rumor about Siakam going to the Warriors for Wiseman and Wiggins so I slept on it .
The rumor I think was an ESPN talking head propaganda favoring who else? but one of the darling team of the West. Wiggins FOR the Warriors POV is a high dollar throw away. Siakam will make them instant Championship contender with those two prolific scorers opening the lane for him to maximize his biggest strength, his patented pirouette move. Adding Wiseman is just making the move a little attractive especially that the Raptors were badly needing a starting big last season after losing Gasol and Ibaka. Wiseman has more room to develop for sure but the main concern is his durability.
That being said, If we move Siakam then they have to move Van Vleet. It is stupid to move the 1A Robin first and leave the 1B Robin. It has to be the other way or both.
To me KAT is the best fit for Nick Nurse’s schemes. Great PnR big guy with 3 point range. Decent passing skills as well. Getting KAT then trading Boucher/ Van Vleet and 2 SRPs for Sabonis and Brogdon is my dream follow up move.
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Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
Especially the one that has Pascal Siakam going for 3 or 4 FRPs and a serviceable NBA role player...depending on how you categorize Wiseman.
Harden Territory.
Love Pascal but he isn’t in that tier.
Any package for a superstar will usually include BOTH an established, borderline all-star quality piece, either in-prime or approaching it, and also a giant pile of picks and swaps. For a lesser star like Pascal, it's just the pile of picks, and a smaller one at that. Oladipo was somewhat damaged goods, but Houston bet on being able to flip him for value, and they did get a little of it with an additional 1st round swap rights deal with Miami (which again could have some real value, have to imagine the Heat are way below the Nets in the standings next season).
You are free to say it is unlikely the Warriors trade that package for Siakam. That's fine! And it's just as unlikely the Raptors accept less for him. Which is also fine! Maybe the two teams are a bad match for a trade. But if the Warriors are smart, they would meet the Raptors' price assuming the Raptors are willing to trade Siakam even for the sort of package I suggested (they probably are not, but might be!). Sometimes (actually almost always), when a team is looking to optimize their current window, it is best to pay a premium for the best available talent rather than trying to reduce asset cost and acquire a lesser talent instead. You often just lose assets AND don't accomplish your short term goals trying to take the middle ground.
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This is a Hollinger speculation piece and he has Sengun going at #4 in the draft. So take with a huge grain of salt.
But one thing I would agree with is that the Warriors have to think about winning now.. it's been 2 sad sack years for that franchise. They can't turn their futures into duds like the Celtics ended up doing. Have to capitalize now.
I still think the best shot is Lowry through a S&T. And I want Lowry back.. but #7 and Wiggins for Lowry seems like a good swap for both clubs.
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planetmars wrote: View PostThis is a Hollinger speculation piece and he has Sengun going at #4 in the draft. So take with a huge grain of salt.
But one thing I would agree with is that the Warriors have to think about winning now.. it's been 2 sad sack years for that franchise. They can't turn their futures into duds like the Celtics ended up doing. Have to capitalize now.
I still think the best shot is Lowry through a S&T. And I want Lowry back.. but #7 and Wiggins for Lowry seems like a good swap for both clubs.
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DanH wrote: View Post
It's just so tough to pull off a trade like that without taking a huge risk letting the Raps choose the 7th guy. You pick the wrong guy and maybe the Raps aren't interested, but then maybe Lowry isn't interested and you picked a guy you don't really want for no reason...
OKC has Kemba to unload but he's damaged goods right now. Houston has Wall but he's got a massive contract. Cavs would love to unload Love but would the Warriors want him? Wizards like Beal too much. Pelicans still want to win so won't give up on Ingram. Bulls want to win with LaVine. They made a win now trade at the deadline. Maybe the Kings would part with Bagley for another pick? They really suck at drafting though. And Bagley is not a star.
There is a good chance that whoever the Warriors select at 7 will be enticing to the Raptors.
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planetmars wrote: View PostThis is a Hollinger speculation piece and he has Sengun going at #4 in the draft. So take with a huge grain of salt.
But one thing I would agree with is that the Warriors have to think about winning now.. it's been 2 sad sack years for that franchise. They can't turn their futures into duds like the Celtics ended up doing. Have to capitalize now.
I still think the best shot is Lowry through a S&T. And I want Lowry back.. but #7 and Wiggins for Lowry seems like a good swap for both clubs.
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planetmars wrote: View Post
The challenge for the Warriors though is finding a team willing to take a prospect for a star player. Not many teams outright tanking / rebuilding out there that also has an all-star caliber player to unload.
OKC has Kemba to unload but he's damaged goods right now. Houston has Wall but he's got a massive contract. Cavs would love to unload Love but would the Warriors want him? Wizards like Beal too much. Pelicans still want to win so won't give up on Ingram. Bulls want to win with LaVine. They made a win now trade at the deadline. Maybe the Kings would part with Bagley for another pick? They really suck at drafting though. And Bagley is not a star.
There is a good chance that whoever the Warriors select at 7 will be enticing to the Raptors.
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The Claw Reborn wrote: View PostI didnt give my two cents right away on this rumor about Siakam going to the Warriors for Wiseman and Wiggins so I slept on it .
The rumor I think was an ESPN talking head propaganda favoring who else? but one of the darling team of the West. Wiggins FOR the Warriors POV is a high dollar throw away. Siakam will make them instant Championship contender with those two prolific scorers opening the lane for him to maximize his biggest strength, his patented pirouette move. Adding Wiseman is just making the move a little attractive especially that the Raptors were badly needing a starting big last season after losing Gasol and Ibaka. Wiseman has more room to develop for sure but the main concern is his durability.
That being said, If we move Siakam then they have to move Van Vleet. It is stupid to move the 1A Robin first and leave the 1B Robin. It has to be the other way or both.
To me KAT is the best fit for Nick Nurse’s schemes. Great PnR big guy with 3 point range. Decent passing skills as well. Getting KAT then trading Boucher/ Van Vleet and 2 SRPs for Sabonis and Brogdon is my dream follow up move.
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DanH wrote: View Post
There is a decent chance, yes. I don't know that the Raptors want to take on Wiggins unless they are getting a lot back though.
The attraction to Wiggins by Masai and his team could be real. They like Canadian talents. Mulder could be a kid they throw in as well in any potential deal.
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It really is an interesting trade idea with Golden State. Very polarizing between the fan bases. I leaned towards wanting to do it a few days ago, and now I'm leaning more to what Dan is saying. A friend of mine that whose opinion on college bball, the draft and NBA I really respect, wasn't too bullish on the trade.
"I don't know why Toronto wants to do GS any favours."
He wasn't a big fan of Wiseman at the draft. He thinks he is fine, and added that it doesn't matter where he was drafted. He's just a guy now.
Pascal for Wiseman and #7 isn't a great trade, plus we have to take Wiggins.
He suggested #14 and another pick from GS would have to be included.
Warriors want to compete for a championship in Steph's window. They need a power forward. Pascal is a perfect fit next to Draymond and Steph. Its like the Love/Wiggins trade. Warriors need a 19/9 guy that plays good defense right now. Wiseman isn't it, #7 isn't it either.
There isn't a path for the Raptors to be a championship team next year, but if Golden State wants to pay the toll, then we have a lot of picks and assets to get back into contention.
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DanH wrote: View Post
Well, it's a good bit short of Harden territory (they got Oladipo, Exum, three Nets first rounders, 4 years of rights to swap which could be very valuable down the road, and an extra 1st round pick from Cleveland), and more importantly, Pascal has not asked out. You want to pry away a player from a team that has no reason to trade them, you have to pay more.
Any package for a superstar will usually include BOTH an established, borderline all-star quality piece, either in-prime or approaching it, and also a giant pile of picks and swaps. For a lesser star like Pascal, it's just the pile of picks, and a smaller one at that. Oladipo was somewhat damaged goods, but Houston bet on being able to flip him for value, and they did get a little of it with an additional 1st round swap rights deal with Miami (which again could have some real value, have to imagine the Heat are way below the Nets in the standings next season).
You are free to say it is unlikely the Warriors trade that package for Siakam. That's fine! And it's just as unlikely the Raptors accept less for him. Which is also fine! Maybe the two teams are a bad match for a trade. But if the Warriors are smart, they would meet the Raptors' price assuming the Raptors are willing to trade Siakam even for the sort of package I suggested (they probably are not, but might be!). Sometimes (actually almost always), when a team is looking to optimize their current window, it is best to pay a premium for the best available talent rather than trying to reduce asset cost and acquire a lesser talent instead. You often just lose assets AND don't accomplish your short term goals trying to take the middle ground.
I think your ask is too high. You think mine is ltoo ow.
IF it ever comes to fruition... we will see.. If not we move to the next bit of trade speculation involving a Raps player.
And I still have the over or equal to on Trent at 68 and 4.
There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
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Mitchell Duong wrote: View PostIt really is an interesting trade idea with Golden State. Very polarizing between the fan bases. I leaned towards wanting to do it a few days ago, and now I'm leaning more to what Dan is saying. A friend of mine that whose opinion on college bball, the draft and NBA I really respect, wasn't too bullish on the trade.
"I don't know why Toronto wants to do GS any favours."
He wasn't a big fan of Wiseman at the draft. He thinks he is fine, and added that it doesn't matter where he was drafted. He's just a guy now.
Pascal for Wiseman and #7 isn't a great trade, plus we have to take Wiggins.
He suggested #14 and another pick from GS would have to be included.
Warriors want to compete for a championship in Steph's window. They need a power forward. Pascal is a perfect fit next to Draymond and Steph. Its like the Love/Wiggins trade. Warriors need a 19/9 guy that plays good defense right now. Wiseman isn't it, #7 isn't it either.
There isn't a path for the Raptors to be a championship team next year, but if Golden State wants to pay the toll, then we have a lot of picks and assets to get back into contention.
That might be the reason to act of the Warriors as they have built a bazillion dollar arena full of "experiences" and luxury boxes that has sat dormant for a couple years now. Playoff dates keep the cash registers ringing.
So GSW is motivated to put a winning team on the floor sooner rather than later with Curry and the return of prodigal son Klay Thompson.
As always... any noise about this isn't coming from 40 Bay Street.
There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
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Wiggins + Wiseman means taking on something like 85M over the next 4 yrs just for those 2. Wiggins had one decent year - while playing with the best shooter of all time - and Wisemanncoukd very well be a bust.
You trade Pascal for that and you’re kissing goodbye to competing again any time soon. No matter who you draft at 4.
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