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  • #46
    NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post

    This is such a terrible take. I wonder if some of you even follow the team or watch the games. It's pretty clear that Lowry is very comfortable giving up touches to the young guys, he sat basically the whole season and is all smiles. Also, "rebuilding" is such a crapshoot and has never been a viable strategy. The only time it has (kinda) worked in recent memory is the process in Philly and that took the better part of a decade. Which then resulted in Hinkie resigning and the 6ers still squandering chances at a title by making boneheaded moves like keeping Horford over Butler.

    The raptors bread and butter is finding diamonds in the rough through elite scouting and developing them through elite player development i.e the G league. Rebuilding is for incompetent FO's that don't know how to put resources towards scouting and development. Retooling is where it is at and it is what the Raptors do and have been doing for a good while now, to think they'll do anything otherwise is foolish. Develop your guys, add pieces, move said pieces if an opportunity arises (i.e Kawhi) rinse and repeat all while staying competitive.

    Some of y'all love to play arm chair GM, instead of observing how the team has been operating and giving an accurate analysis based on years of evidence. I'm not saying you're not allowed to do that but just don't expect to be taken seriously if you're going to play that role.
    1. It has nothing to do with the "touches" Lowry allow other guys, or if Lowry is "all smiles" or not when he sits. It's all about minutes. Any time you have an established, veteran player on the team, he'll be getting the lion share of the minutes on his position. That's the case for any player on any team, not just Lowry. So by default, the younger guys in that position (Flynn/Trent in our case) will have fewer minutes. Doesn't matter how selfless or not the established player is on the court. This is actually a big part of the conversation between agents and prospective teams. How many minutes will my guy get? What will be his role? Those are key factors in the player's development and as a result his future contracts.

    2. Rebuilding a roster is far from a "crapshoot". It's a natural part of the cycle of every team in history. It's a necessity. Players age, players leave, coaches change, teams need to be rebuilt from time to time. Different fans and different front offices may have different views on the extent and the best timing to do it, but it's certain: every team will have to go through it at some point, some for a shorter time some for longer. You can call it "retool' if that makes you feel better but in the end is all semantics: the team lost core starters after the championship, the leading player remaining from that group is now 35, so the team now needs to rebuild its assets. Nothing wrong with that.

    Exploring options for Lowry at the trade deadline and resting key guys at the end of this season (when the team still had a shot at the play-in) are clear indications the team feels it's the right time to do it. Doesn't mean it's gonna last 8 years (we all hope they come back stronger right next year), but that's the direction the team is going at the end of this season. You can't rely solely on internal development and undrafted guys forever, no matter how good we are at it. Drafting high, giving more minutes/experience to your young guys, and trying to get a return for your 35yr old PG like they did at the trade deadline (since we can't unfortunately contend with him anymore), are all important rebuilding/retooling steps this team has been taking.

    Good front offices are not caught "in the middle" for too long. They're either in win-now mode, or rapidly and efficiently rebuilding assets so they can get to win-now again. Masai directly said that right now there are many directions in which this team can pivot.

    3. "Playing armchair GM instead of observing how the team has been operating and giving an accurate analysis" is an oxymoron. A fan observing how the team has been operating and offering their "analysis" (whether accurate or nor not in someone else's view ), is exactly what playing armchair GM is. That's what this forum is for. If there was only one "analysis', there would be no forum.

    2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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    • #47
      inthepaint wrote: View Post

      1. It has nothing to do with the "touches" Lowry allow other guys, or if Lowry is "all smiles" or not when he sits. It's all about minutes. Any time you have an established, veteran player on the team, he'll be getting the lion share of the minutes on his position. That's the case for any player on any team, not just Lowry. So by default, the younger guys in that position (Flynn/Trent in our case) will have fewer minutes. Doesn't matter how selfless or not the established player is on the court. This is actually a big part of the conversation between agents and prospective teams. How many minutes will my guy get? What will be his role? Those are key factors in the player's development and as a result his future contracts.

      2. Rebuilding a roster is far from a "crapshoot". It's a natural part of the cycle of every team in history. It's a necessity. Players age, players leave, coaches change, teams need to be rebuilt from time to time. Different fans and different front offices may have different views on the extent and the best timing to do it, but it's certain: every team will have to go through it at some point, some for a shorter time some for longer. You can call it "retool' if that makes you feel better but in the end is all semantics: the team lost core starters after the championship, the leading player remaining from that group is now 35, so the team now needs to rebuild its assets. Nothing wrong with that.

      Exploring options for Lowry at the trade deadline and resting key guys at the end of this season (when the team still had a shot at the play-in) are clear indications the team feels it's the right time to do it. Doesn't mean it's gonna last 8 years (we all hope they come back stronger right next year), but that's the direction the team is going at the end of this season. You can't rely solely on internal development and undrafted guys forever, no matter how good we are at it. Drafting high, giving more minutes/experience to your young guys, and trying to get a return for your 35yr old PG like they did at the trade deadline (since we can't unfortunately contend with him anymore), are all important rebuilding/retooling steps this team has been taking.

      Good front offices are not caught "in the middle" for too long. They're either in win-now mode, or rapidly and efficiently rebuilding assets so they can get to win-now again. Masai directly said that right now there are many directions in which this team can pivot.

      3. "Playing armchair GM instead of observing how the team has been operating and giving an accurate analysis" is an oxymoron. A fan observing how the team has been operating and offering their "analysis" (whether accurate or nor not in someone else's view ), is exactly what playing armchair GM is. That's what this forum is for. If there was only one "analysis', there would be no forum.
      we need to restock the cupboard which is exactly the reason why this was the best year to "stealth tank"

      Comment


      • #48
        I don't expect us to let Lowry walk unless we have no choice, whether it's a re-signing for us or a sign-and-trade; given how difficult it will be for us to get far enough below the cap for it to matter in the near future, we're simply better off positioning ourselves to operate above the cap, and with two exceptions this year instead of one.

        I still expect Kyle's contract in a re-signing to be two years plus a third partially guaranteed year. I'm not as sure as I used to be that it will end up being 25 million a year with third year guaranteed at 8 million, though; I'm not as sure he gets the full 25 million that's his target unless we really want to make him happy. Even three years at 22 million with 7 guaranteed in the third year gives us (or anyone we trade Kyle to) the right kind of flexibility: get one or two more good years from him, and then be able to get assets back in return for a nice chunk of cap space.

        I don't think management is averse to a sign-and-trade for Kyle ... but I do think that Miami is going to be only especially likely contender-level partner for that, and I can see them lobbying hard for us to take a post-surgery signed-and-traded Oladipo as the return (assuming all the cap and CBA stuff works out). I wouldn't be inclined to take that risk without serious additional incentive.

        If we can keep Birch for 2 years at 4 million with the one exception (for bird right purposes) that'd be nice; we can then see what/who is around with the other 9 million. I wouldn't be averse to keeping Bembry around for a slice of it if there's nobody worth the full 9 for us, though.

        Comment


        • #49
          Barring other moves that bring in high end talent at positions of need, its time to move on from lowry. Unless of course Fred is traded, then keeping lowry is a must. It doesnt make sense to me to bring in trent to come off the bench. So im my mind its one of lowry/fvv, trent, og, pascal and hopefully another C. Birch, boucher, gillespie, harris, yuta, flynn, picks off the bench. Thats a decent lineup, but still not likely a contender.

          Comment


          • #50
            JawsGT wrote: View Post
            Barring other moves that bring in high end talent at positions of need, its time to move on from lowry. Unless of course Fred is traded, then keeping lowry is a must. It doesnt make sense to me to bring in trent to come off the bench. So im my mind its one of lowry/fvv, trent, og, pascal and hopefully another C. Birch, boucher, gillespie, harris, yuta, flynn, picks off the bench. Thats a decent lineup, but still not likely a contender.
            Why doesn't it make sense to bring Trent off the bench, exactly? They traded a guy who would be coming off the bench if they had a C and were healthy for him.
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

            Comment


            • #51
              JawsGT wrote: View Post
              Barring other moves that bring in high end talent at positions of need, its time to move on from lowry. Unless of course Fred is traded, then keeping lowry is a must. It doesnt make sense to me to bring in trent to come off the bench. So im my mind its one of lowry/fvv, trent, og, pascal and hopefully another C. Birch, boucher, gillespie, harris, yuta, flynn, picks off the bench. Thats a decent lineup, but still not likely a contender.


              Amen to this....TREADMILL........would be so idiotic to have Van a Vleet as the PG/SG tweener and have Trent come off the bench as the 6th man....

              Norm Powell situation all over again.

              IMO Van Vleet is expendable

              Comment


              • #52
                The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post



                Amen to this....TREADMILL........would be so idiotic to have Van a Vleet as the PG/SG tweener and have Trent come off the bench as the 6th man....

                Norm Powell situation all over again.

                IMO Van Vleet is expendable
                it makes me sad but yes I agree unless we get cade.. and even then I think long term Vanvleet will be used to get someone else more than likely. Because of his weird tweener status.

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                • #53
                  DanH wrote: View Post

                  Why doesn't it make sense to bring Trent off the bench, exactly? They traded a guy who would be coming off the bench if they had a C and were healthy for him.
                  I think trent starts next year more than likely unless lowry is back.. but if we draft any rookie he is starting with Lowry gone.. BUT I could see the rookie surpassing him by year's end.

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                  • #54
                    TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

                    it makes me sad but yes I agree unless we get cade.. and even then I think long term Vanvleet will be used to get someone else more than likely. Because of his weird tweener status.
                    By reading anything available on the World Wide Web....Cade seem to be the consensus no.1 pick.....who ever is picking him most likely not giving him up. Even if the Raptors would offer Van Vleet and the Raps pick for the no.1 or Siakam and the Raps pick for no.1

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                    • #55
                      The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

                      By reading anything available on the World Wide Web....Cade seem to be the consensus no.1 pick.....who ever is picking him most likely not giving him up. Even if the Raptors would offer Van Vleet and the Raps pick for the no.1 or Siakam and the Raps pick for no.1
                      That was with the assumption that we win.... cause you know Adam never apologized to Masai... (half joking).

                      I wouldn't give siakam for the number 1.... no.


                      The whole point of us winning the lottery is it would allow us or getting in the top 2 is it will dramatically allow us to have people fall into line with a guy who will potentially grow into that number 1 guy that we need or a proper play maker.

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                      • #56
                        TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post
                        That was with the assumption that we win.... cause you know Adam never apologized to Masai... (half joking).

                        I wouldn't give siakam for the number 1.... no.


                        The whole point of us winning the lottery is it would allow us or getting in the top 2 is it will dramatically allow us to have people fall into line with a guy who will potentially grow into that number 1 guy that we need or a proper play maker.
                        We all root for this one team...hopefully we get lucky and potentially develop a game changer who can make an impact in 2-3 years time

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                          • #58
                            If we dont retain trent, the i really have no idea what we are trying to do.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              JawsGT wrote: View Post
                              If we dont retain trent, the i really have no idea what we are trying to do.
                              He is an RFA.
                              Its our choice.
                              Not his.

                              They didn't trade Norm for Trent to just let him go.
                              Last edited by Demographic Shift; Sun May 16, 2021, 06:37 PM.
                              I don't normally like a tank. But when I do I prefer a #TampaTank.

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                              • #60
                                JawsGT wrote: View Post
                                If we dont retain trent, the i really have no idea what we are trying to do.
                                I don't understand why people think we are letting trent go or that we some how wont retain the man...

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