Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Areas for Improvement for Individual Players

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Jclaw
    replied


    This seems to apply in so many threads

    Leave a comment:


  • The Claw Reborn
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    Where did I say Siakam has to post up like Malone? He's great rolling into space, operating out of the high post with a bit of a face up game, lots of options getting him the ball inside. Very versatile player who is easy to fit beside. But not at his best camping on the perimeter, and as such fits best beside players who ARE. Like... someone.

    I'm not saying Siakam shot poorly (ish...) inside because he didn't have Jokic spoonfeeding him, I'm saying MPJ is a hilarious comparison to draw considering he DID. Like, what point are you even trying to make there? My counter is simply that comparing the two players and saying oh, look at how much more efficient MPJ was, well yeah, of course he was, look at the shots he got!

    Comb through your comparative players and look for guys who create as much of their own offence close to the rim as Siakam had to and I'll bet you end up with a very small list of guys who managed to shoot better in those situations, and most of those superstars.

    Heck, let's take a look, real quick, see if we can lump in Siakam with some other players. I'll just sort by total FGA per game in that 5-9 foot range and see how the highest volume guys stack up. Seems like a big range, some guys solidly below 40%, some guys approaching 60% (holy crap Jokic). Siakam took the 7th most shots from that range, and shot 41%.

    List of players who shot 42% or worse from that range among the highest volume shooters there:

    Markelle Fultz (oof, tough start to the list, but stick with me here)
    Karl Anthony Towns
    Ja Morant
    Joel Embiid
    Donovon Mitchell
    Jaylen Brown
    Jayson Tatum
    Caris Levert
    Russell Westbrook
    Domantas Sabonis (huh, we want to trade for this guy though, right?)
    Ben Simmons
    Elfrid Payton
    Gordon Hayward
    Marvin Bagley III
    Dejounte Murray
    Giannis Antetokounmpo

    Yep. Not a group of players I'd ever want the players on my team lumped in with.

    Also, LOL, had to scroll like 5 pages (200+ players) to get to MPJ, who takes LESS THAN ONE of these shots a game. Yeah, good job cherry picking that comparison. Defences really loading up to defend that shot from him.
    The two help hide each other's flaws just fine when they are used optimally. Pascal wants the ball in his hands, Fred wants to be off ball. Pascal wants to be inside and needs floor spacers, Fred wants to be outside and doesn't need a path to the rim because he's useless there, reducing the need for Pascal to space the floor.
    This is not happening and see no point of waiting for this to happen. Square peg in a round hole. Lol.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Claw Reborn
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    Getting two players of that quality and keeping Siakam is certainly a nice idea.

    But with the Pacers firing Nate, I expect they keep both Brogdon and Sabonis and the only guy they look to move on from is Turner, who is probably a little expensive for their taste with Sabonis there. Turner is still a guy I would really like to see them go after, but that's to add to the core. Trading FVV or Siakam for him would make no sense.
    I am not fan of Turner honestly….Siakam would be best fit with Brogdon and Sabonis in the team. So Indiana ownership chose a side, guess that Bjorkgren and Van Vleet reunion ain’t happening then.

    Leave a comment:


  • DanH
    replied
    The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

    That was your post response Dan on another thread that we found a common ground….Sabonis is a nice passing high BBIQ big and so is Brogdon who is more of a versatile Point Guard who has a higher vantage point. We both can achieve what we wanted for this team.

    Hopefully we target Indiana in the offseason to make changes and at least retain Siakam.

    I still have hopes in him than self-admitting negative bias on Van Vleet.

    One of the 28 years old has to go…Van Vleet has to be traded.
    Getting two players of that quality and keeping Siakam is certainly a nice idea.

    But with the Pacers firing Nate, I expect they keep both Brogdon and Sabonis and the only guy they look to move on from is Turner, who is probably a little expensive for their taste with Sabonis there. Turner is still a guy I would really like to see them go after, but that's to add to the core. Trading FVV or Siakam for him would make no sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • DanH
    replied
    The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

    I find the sarcasm hilarious because you are putting the blame on the fact that we didn’t have a Center doing Point Guard duties lol. We were stuck with Aaron Baynes, why Siakam was shooting a dismal 59% 5 feet close to the rim while MPJ had the MVP.

    Siakam in an island, having to create on his own down low unassisted.

    You are hell bent in implying that Siakam is a natural power forward who has to post up like Karl Malone who needs a John Stockton to be effective while blame Nick Nurse for misusing Fred Van Vleet as a Point Guard rather than an undersized shooting guard who needs to be outside shooting threes.
    Where did I say Siakam has to post up like Malone? He's great rolling into space, operating out of the high post with a bit of a face up game, lots of options getting him the ball inside. Very versatile player who is easy to fit beside. But not at his best camping on the perimeter, and as such fits best beside players who ARE. Like... someone.

    I'm not saying Siakam shot poorly (ish...) inside because he didn't have Jokic spoonfeeding him, I'm saying MPJ is a hilarious comparison to draw considering he DID. Like, what point are you even trying to make there? My counter is simply that comparing the two players and saying oh, look at how much more efficient MPJ was, well yeah, of course he was, look at the shots he got!

    Comb through your comparative players and look for guys who create as much of their own offence close to the rim as Siakam had to and I'll bet you end up with a very small list of guys who managed to shoot better in those situations, and most of those superstars.

    Heck, let's take a look, real quick, see if we can lump in Siakam with some other players. I'll just sort by total FGA per game in that 5-9 foot range and see how the highest volume guys stack up. Seems like a big range, some guys solidly below 40%, some guys approaching 60% (holy crap Jokic). Siakam took the 7th most shots from that range, and shot 41%.

    List of players who shot 42% or worse from that range among the highest volume shooters there:

    Markelle Fultz (oof, tough start to the list, but stick with me here)
    Karl Anthony Towns
    Ja Morant
    Joel Embiid
    Donovon Mitchell
    Jaylen Brown
    Jayson Tatum
    Caris Levert
    Russell Westbrook
    Domantas Sabonis (huh, we want to trade for this guy though, right?)
    Ben Simmons
    Elfrid Payton
    Gordon Hayward
    Marvin Bagley III
    Dejounte Murray
    Giannis Antetokounmpo

    Yep. Not a group of players I'd ever want the players on my team lumped in with.

    Also, LOL, had to scroll like 5 pages (200+ players) to get to MPJ, who takes LESS THAN ONE of these shots a game. Yeah, good job cherry picking that comparison. Defences really loading up to defend that shot from him.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Claw Reborn
    replied
    Indy is definitely a team to keep an eye on. They will likely move at least one of Brogdon, Sabonis, Turner. Maybe more. I wouldn't be wanting to move Fred but Brogdon coming back would ease that pain a bit.

    And you are right, the Raptors have lots of plan A/B/C options, and each of their core three players can easily be the central piece in a superstar trade if one becomes available.
    That was your post response Dan on another thread that we found a common ground….Sabonis is a nice passing high BBIQ big and so is Brogdon who is more of a versatile Point Guard who has a higher vantage point. We both can achieve what we wanted for this team.

    Hopefully we target Indiana in the offseason to make changes and at least retain Siakam.

    I still have hopes in him than self-admitting negative bias on Van Vleet.

    One of the 28 years old has to go…Van Vleet has to be traded.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Claw Reborn
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    Yeah, Pascal really should be capitalizing on all those uncontested looks inside he gets with Aron Baynes being the best passing big in history setting him up all the time. MPJ has 71% of his 2 pointers assisted. Siakam has 34% of his assisted (a number usually only seen for point guards - only players on the roster with decent usage who compare are Lowry, Fred and Flynn), by FAR the lowest of his career, as he was left mostly to just create all his own offence this year.

    Siakam's inside game carried his efficiency - generating a quarter of his shots at the rim (0-3 feet) where he shot ~70%, generating free throws by driving inside (FTr back up into the .300's after a dip last season) combined with a career high FT%, and most of his playmaking generated from inside as well. You don't put up a 55% TS% on the strength of shooting 40% on long twos or sub-30% on threes.

    The two help hide each other's flaws just fine when they are used optimally. Pascal wants the ball in his hands, Fred wants to be off ball. Pascal wants to be inside and needs floor spacers, Fred wants to be outside and doesn't need a path to the rim because he's useless there, reducing the need for Pascal to space the floor.
    I find the sarcasm hilarious because you are putting the blame on the fact that we didn’t have a Center doing Point Guard duties lol. We were stuck with Aaron Baynes, why Siakam was shooting a dismal 59% 5 feet close to the rim while MPJ had the MVP.

    Siakam in an island, having to create on his own down low unassisted.

    You are hell bent in implying that Siakam is a natural power forward who has to post up like Karl Malone who needs a John Stockton to be effective while blame Nick Nurse for misusing Fred Van Vleet as a Point Guard rather than an undersized shooting guard who needs to be outside shooting threes.

    I have to edit my politically correct term: it should be MIDGET shooting guard not undersized
    Last edited by The Claw Reborn; Wed Jun 9, 2021, 11:16 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • DanH
    replied
    The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

    At least we found “close” to a common ground (IF), yet there is still a big gap there, haha.

    Pascal is shooting 59% less than 5 feet and 40% between 5-9 feet. He ranked way below amongst the rest of his peers of same position and height. He is shooting 41% at the 15-19 feet area which is not bad, honestly.

    https://www.nba.com/stats/players/sh...FG%20PCT&dir=1

    An example: MPJ is shooting 75% (less than 5 feet) and 47% (5-9 feet) respectively.

    So that we both disagree. The low post position is not actually his biggest strength.

    It would be hypocritical for any of us here in this forum that we don’t have our own biases when we evaluate and value our own Raptors and most especially the other team’s players. However from my own perspective, Van Vleet and Siakam have some significant individual weaknesses offensively that they don’t hide each other’s flaws, the fit is not there.

    Hard to envision a team without Lowry and having a weak Point Guard in Flynn and Van Vleet as the shooting guard while GTJ coming off the bench as the 6th man…OR have Van Vleet assume the role Lowry vacated and have GTJ who’s strength is more of a spot shooter rather than the pro-typical SG who can break defenses be the off guard while Flynn as the back up point guard.

    A lot hinges on who they pick in this upcoming draft.

    Having to carry two 28 years old, one will be earning 33 million and the other 19.5 million, a total of 52 million and both are not complementing each other’s game is not a prudent way of retooling a team IMO … financially to improve the team, the very least is for one to be traded to address a more pressing need.
    Yeah, Pascal really should be capitalizing on all those uncontested looks inside he gets with Aron Baynes being the best passing big in history setting him up all the time. MPJ has 71% of his 2 pointers assisted. Siakam has 34% of his assisted (a number usually only seen for point guards - only players on the roster with decent usage who compare are Lowry, Fred and Flynn), by FAR the lowest of his career, as he was left mostly to just create all his own offence this year.

    Siakam's inside game carried his efficiency - generating a quarter of his shots at the rim (0-3 feet) where he shot ~70%, generating free throws by driving inside (FTr back up into the .300's after a dip last season) combined with a career high FT%, and most of his playmaking generated from inside as well. You don't put up a 55% TS% on the strength of shooting 40% on long twos or sub-30% on threes.

    The two help hide each other's flaws just fine when they are used optimally. Pascal wants the ball in his hands, Fred wants to be off ball. Pascal wants to be inside and needs floor spacers, Fred wants to be outside and doesn't need a path to the rim because he's useless there, reducing the need for Pascal to space the floor.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Claw Reborn
    replied
    Just like what the Super Moderator had stated ….we are a “jack of all trades” team…a few tweeners but not one player that is high level in one position.

    The top 4 West team and East teams vying for a Finals Conference ticket do have at least 1 high level player with one or 2 teams arguably may have an extra one more lol.

    Raptors have a long way to go to even fantasize surviving a play-in more so a first round seven game battle. ugh.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Claw Reborn
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    So, your position is that Fred fits great beside Pascal if used correctly? Great, we agree.

    Your point about Pascal I don't understand. Pascal has been a good scorer this year, entirely on the strength of his inside game, and most of his playmaking opportunities also come from getting inside. His efficiency struggles this year basically boil down to not hitting his threes.

    They fit perfectly fine. The team trying to stretch both players out into bigger roles to see what they have over the past two seasons does not mean they don't fit, it means the team was willing to sacrifice short term wins for development, which is exactly what they should have been doing.

    Your points don't seem to be at all about actual fit. Seems like you just don't like the individual player each has performed as, with or without the other, over the past couple of seasons. And, hey, fair enough, have fun with that. But it's nothing to do with their fit.
    At least we found “close” to a common ground (IF), yet there is still a big gap there, haha.

    Pascal is shooting 59% less than 5 feet and 40% between 5-9 feet. He ranked way below amongst the rest of his peers of same position and height. He is shooting 41% at the 15-19 feet area which is not bad, honestly.

    https://www.nba.com/stats/players/sh...FG%20PCT&dir=1

    An example: MPJ is shooting 75% (less than 5 feet) and 47% (5-9 feet) respectively.

    So that we both disagree. The low post position is not actually his biggest strength.

    It would be hypocritical for any of us here in this forum that we don’t have our own biases when we evaluate and value our own Raptors and most especially the other team’s players. However from my own perspective, Van Vleet and Siakam have some significant individual weaknesses offensively that they don’t hide each other’s flaws, the fit is not there.

    Hard to envision a team without Lowry and having a weak Point Guard in Flynn and Van Vleet as the shooting guard while GTJ coming off the bench as the 6th man…OR have Van Vleet assume the role Lowry vacated and have GTJ who’s strength is more of a spot shooter rather than the pro-typical SG who can break defenses be the off guard while Flynn as the back up point guard.

    A lot hinges on who they pick in this upcoming draft.

    Having to carry two 28 years old, one will be earning 33 million and the other 19.5 million, a total of 52 million and both are not complementing each other’s game is not a prudent way of retooling a team IMO … financially to improve the team, the very least is for one to be traded to address a more pressing need.

    Last edited by The Claw Reborn; Tue Jun 8, 2021, 06:57 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • DanH
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Kyle Lowry apparently reads the same fiction as you:

    Yes, I too always believe everything Lowry says in public and take it at face value. I think this is a smart thing to do. I also believe that the Raptors are always thinking the same thing that their players are thinking. I certainly believe that was the case with DeMar DeRozan, who clearly expected the Raptors to take the direction they did.

    Fred thinks of himself as a PG so Lowry refers to him as a PG. But the Raptors already took the ball out of his hands quite a bit whenever they had Malachi out there with him towards the end of the season. They know what they have.

    Leave a comment:


  • DanH
    replied
    The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

    Too many of great points there Dan to unpack, not all though I would agree….

    1. You stated that Fred is much better on the perimeter and is best kept as a tertiary playmaker and a shooter than a scorer.

    - my response: yes that SHOULD have been his role as a “spot up shooter” and he SHOULD have been maximizing that one and only strength he has offensively as he is more effective but he mostly shy away from them, he prefers to initiate the offense, dribbles the ball until close to the end of the shot clock, ending up passing a hot potato or throwing a heave while screaming “hail mary”. By that, his efficiency suffers and he becomes the new Raptors “chucker”. Another frustrating he does on the court and this is more of a mental lapse or just poor BBIQ i am not so sure but he would prefer driving the ball amongst trees and 80% of the time get stuffed under the rim.

    2. You said that Siakam loves being inside and playing a secondary scoring/ playmaking role.

    - my response, that is true but that was two years ago when he was still fresh off the oven so to speak. Now that opposing defenses have scouted him and game planned him, they are able to predict the direction of where he spins when he post up. This was more happening in the playoffs and high profile games against elite defenses. What he should be doing now is developing a pull up jumper and improving his three point shooting. For now his strength will always be in open court situations and he excels against teams with lack of length or lack of an elite one on one defender.

    Now that we unpacked both players strengths and flaws offensively, I am sure you would able to deduce a logical conclusion why if combined, we would be able to agree that they dont fit when both are together on the court. You still can agree to disagree and I am fine with that

    Defensively, they are great and we can both agree but that is strawman.
    So, your position is that Fred fits great beside Pascal if used correctly? Great, we agree.

    Your point about Pascal I don't understand. Pascal has been a good scorer this year, entirely on the strength of his inside game, and most of his playmaking opportunities also come from getting inside. His efficiency struggles this year basically boil down to not hitting his threes.

    They fit perfectly fine. The team trying to stretch both players out into bigger roles to see what they have over the past two seasons does not mean they don't fit, it means the team was willing to sacrifice short term wins for development, which is exactly what they should have been doing.

    Your points don't seem to be at all about actual fit. Seems like you just don't like the individual player each has performed as, with or without the other, over the past couple of seasons. And, hey, fair enough, have fun with that. But it's nothing to do with their fit.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Claw Reborn
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Kyle Lowry apparently reads the same fiction as you:



    https://www.thestar.com/sports/rapto...on-a-year.html

    Yes that is quiet obvious and we would be just fooling ourselves to believe that they are not grooming Van Vleet as the heir apparent.

    Unfortunately those shoes are too big to fit and even how we pound this rock, that will never happen.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Claw Reborn
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    But... they do? Siakam loves being inside and playing a secondary scoring/playmaking role. Fred is much better on the perimeter and is best kept as a tertiary playmaker and a shooter more than a scorer. So, perfect fits. The problem is they both need a primary offensive hub beside them, but that's not a fit thing, that's a "both players are not superstars" thing. All this ignoring the great fits they are defensively, with both players great fits for the aggressive defensive scheme the Raptors like to run, and with Fred's dig game and ability to guard up a great complement to Pascal's switchability and role as a keystone in scramble help situations.
    Too many of great points there Dan to unpack, not all though I would agree….

    1. You stated that Fred is much better on the perimeter and is best kept as a tertiary playmaker and a shooter than a scorer.

    - my response: yes that SHOULD have been his role as a “spot up shooter” and he SHOULD have been maximizing that one and only strength he has offensively as he is more effective but he mostly shy away from them, he prefers to initiate the offense, dribbles the ball until close to the end of the shot clock, ending up passing a hot potato or throwing a heave while screaming “hail mary”. By that, his efficiency suffers and he becomes the new Raptors “chucker”. Another frustrating he does on the court and this is more of a mental lapse or just poor BBIQ i am not so sure but he would prefer driving the ball amongst trees and 80% of the time get stuffed under the rim.

    2. You said that Siakam loves being inside and playing a secondary scoring/ playmaking role.

    - my response, that is true but that was two years ago when he was still fresh off the oven so to speak. Now that opposing defenses have scouted him and game planned him, they are able to predict the direction of where he spins when he post up. This was more happening in the playoffs and high profile games against elite defenses. What he should be doing now is developing a pull up jumper and improving his three point shooting. For now his strength will always be in open court situations and he excels against teams with lack of length or lack of an elite one on one defender.

    Now that we unpacked both players strengths and flaws offensively, I am sure you would able to deduce a logical conclusion why if combined, we would be able to agree that they dont fit when both are together on the court. You still can agree to disagree and I am fine with that

    Defensively, they are great and we can both agree but that is strawman.




    Leave a comment:


  • golden
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    He's a fine PG. But our aim should be above fine, and he's a very good SG.

    Fred as the heir apparent PG is a complete fiction as far as I'm concerned. Heir apparent leader stepping into Lowry's shoes? Sure. But he's a SG, and they've only really used him as a PG to give Lowry some rest while on-court - just have to look up Malachi's quotes about how he finds himself playing PG beside Fred versus playing SG beside Lowry. The team knows Fred best fits into that off ball role, but they've been trying to stretch everyone's game the past two stepping stone seasons.
    Kyle Lowry apparently reads the same fiction as you:

    “You guys know I have a real soft spot for Freddy, and I know he’s going to be the future franchise point guard and I’m just so proud of him, man,” star point guard Kyle Lowry said after Toronto’s season ended.
    https://www.thestar.com/sports/rapto...on-a-year.html


    Leave a comment:

Working...
X