Areas for Improvement for Individual Players

[DanH]

Our heir apparent franchise PG is best kept as a "tertiary" playmaker. Welp. Has anybody told Fred that?

He's a fine PG. But our aim should be above fine, and he's a very good SG.

Fred as the heir apparent PG is a complete fiction as far as I'm concerned. Heir apparent leader stepping into Lowry's shoes? Sure. But he's a SG, and they've only really used him as a PG to give Lowry some rest while on-court - just have to look up Malachi's quotes about how he finds himself playing PG beside Fred versus playing SG beside Lowry. The team knows Fred best fits into that off ball role, but they've been trying to stretch everyone's game the past two stepping stone seasons.

[golden]

But... they do? Siakam loves being inside and playing a secondary scoring/playmaking role. Fred is much better on the perimeter and is best kept as a tertiary playmaker and a shooter more than a scorer. So, perfect fits. The problem is they both need a primary offensive hub beside them, but that's not a fit thing, that's a "both players are not superstars" thing. All this ignoring the great fits they are defensively, with both players great fits for the aggressive defensive scheme the Raptors like to run, and with Fred's dig game and ability to guard up a great complement to Pascal's switchability and role as a keystone in scramble help situations.

Our heir apparent franchise PG is best kept as a "tertiary" playmaker. Welp. Has anybody told Fred that?

[DanH]

Not as much as individual fit but as I said more about the two players who both don’t complement each other.

But... they do? Siakam loves being inside and playing a secondary scoring/playmaking role. Fred is much better on the perimeter and is best kept as a tertiary playmaker and a shooter more than a scorer. So, perfect fits. The problem is they both need a primary offensive hub beside them, but that's not a fit thing, that's a "both players are not superstars" thing. All this ignoring the great fits they are defensively, with both players great fits for the aggressive defensive scheme the Raptors like to run, and with Fred's dig game and ability to guard up a great complement to Pascal's switchability and role as a keystone in scramble help situations.

[The Claw Reborn]

Who is the square peg? What's the round hole? Both players are very good at playing their positions.

Not as much as individual fit but as I said more about the two players who both don’t complement each other.

[The Claw Reborn]

Considering where this team is; (Lowry's contract, the whole TB season, post-Kawhi) I'm not convinced we have a true set roster to call any of the holes specific shapes. This team feels like it completely lacked identity this past season and that the team is very much a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none style right now. We have good defenders, we have good shooters, and capable play-makers but none are so good as to not suffer from inconsistency or take over games on a consistent basis.

I feel like this team could really go in any direction now, we have a lot of good pieces, but unless they come together perfectly and play better as the sum of the parts, we don't have "it" right now.

This is a fair comment especially about “jack of all trades and master of none” kind of team. I am excited what Masai can and will do this offseason

[Axel]

We have to agree to disagree….the nonsense is fitting a square peg in a round hole.

Considering where this team is; (Lowry's contract, the whole TB season, post-Kawhi) I'm not convinced we have a true set roster to call any of the holes specific shapes. This team feels like it completely lacked identity this past season and that the team is very much a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none style right now. We have good defenders, we have good shooters, and capable play-makers but none are so good as to not suffer from inconsistency or take over games on a consistent basis.

I feel like this team could really go in any direction now, we have a lot of good pieces, but unless they come together perfectly and play better as the sum of the parts, we don't have "it" right now.

[DanH]

We have to agree to disagree….the nonsense is fitting a square peg in a round hole.

Who is the square peg? What's the round hole? Both players are very good at playing their positions.

[The Claw Reborn]

If the argument is that one of them has to go because of their fit, I think it's nonsense.

If the argument is one of them is likely outgoing in a trade for a superstar, I mean, yeah. But that's why one of them goes. If you can magically trade for a star without trading from the core, there are no fit concerns.

We have to agree to disagree….the nonsense is fitting a square peg in a round hole.

[DanH]

It is so difficult to perfectly gauge the team because this team lack the dynamic wing we lose when Kawhi left. But to get back to that level, i am sure you would agree that financially, management would have to let go 1 of Van Vleet or Siakam’s salaries or both to be included in a package. Unless luck is on our side that we pick one in the draft who is NBA ready. But if not because it requires 2-3 years development, the conundrum is that both of our high dollar earners are 28 years old with low ceiling of growth (Van Vleet most especially).

Van Vleet is too short of a Shooting guard with limited skillset to pair with Siakam. While Siakam is relegated to a spectator when Van Vleet initiates the offense as a point guard wherein he is failing miserably. Eye test would prove that but I wont mind more advanced statistical data to prove me wrong.

Siakam is at his best in open court but becomes predictable now as opposing defenses had honed on his usual “pirouette” low post move most especially in the playoffs. That said with him and Van Vleet together on the court can easily be limited when it matters most in a 7 game series without that Numero uno option. We have seen that the last playoffs.

OG however IMO with his limited handles is more effective as a power forward when they go small. But of course his 3 point fg and defense is a very valuable piece as a Shooting Forward to a team with Championship aspirations. 23 years old with so much more room to grow.

If the argument is that one of them has to go because of their fit, I think it's nonsense.

If the argument is one of them is likely outgoing in a trade for a superstar, I mean, yeah. But that's why one of them goes. If you can magically trade for a star without trading from the core, there are no fit concerns.

[Puffer]

...OG however IMO with his limited handles is more effective as a power forward when they go small. But of course his 3 point fg and defense is a very valuable piece as a Shooting Forward to a team with Championship aspirations. 23 years old with so much more room to grow.

With the long off-season, we might see an improvement in those handles. Likewise, if Siakim finds his 3 pt shot again, we won't have to worry so much about him getting stripped or stuffed trying to make awkward layups.

[The Claw Reborn]

Huh, I always thought Siakam and VanVleet were perfectly compatible SG/PF combos. Their defensive styles really complement each other, and Fred's shooting really helps unlock Pascal's inside game, whereas a PF who is more of a perimeter player would in theory be opening up the paint for Fred to drive inside, which he shouldn't be doing anyway - and vice versa, with a driving SG having Pascal park at the perimeter more than he should.

Both need a PG on the court with them to be best used, but that's true of most NBA players.

It is so difficult to perfectly gauge the team because this team lack the dynamic wing we lose when Kawhi left. But to get back to that level, i am sure you would agree that financially, management would have to let go 1 of Van Vleet or Siakam’s salaries or both to be included in a package. Unless luck is on our side that we pick one in the draft who is NBA ready. But if not because it requires 2-3 years development, the conundrum is that both of our high dollar earners are 28 years old with low ceiling of growth (Van Vleet most especially).

Van Vleet is too short of a Shooting guard with limited skillset to pair with Siakam. While Siakam is relegated to a spectator when Van Vleet initiates the offense as a point guard wherein he is failing miserably. Eye test would prove that but I wont mind more advanced statistical data to prove me wrong.

Siakam is at his best in open court but becomes predictable now as opposing defenses had honed on his usual “pirouette” low post move most especially in the playoffs. That said with him and Van Vleet together on the court can easily be limited when it matters most in a 7 game series without that Numero uno option. We have seen that the last playoffs.

OG however IMO with his limited handles is more effective as a power forward when they go small. But of course his 3 point fg and defense is a very valuable piece as a Shooting Forward to a team with Championship aspirations. 23 years old with so much more room to grow.

[DanH]

Huh, I always thought Siakam and VanVleet were perfectly compatible SG/PF combos. Their defensive styles really complement each other, and Fred's shooting really helps unlock Pascal's inside game, whereas a PF who is more of a perimeter player would in theory be opening up the paint for Fred to drive inside, which he shouldn't be doing anyway - and vice versa, with a driving SG having Pascal park at the perimeter more than he should.

Both need a PG on the court with them to be best used, but that's true of most NBA players.

[The Claw Reborn]

Van Vleet is a Shooting Guard, with his height limitations physically, inability to finish down the rim and the challenges to set up a half court offense even when Ibaka and Gasol were still here had turned out to be an inefficient chucker. Lowry being gone soon would exposed him more and we dont want that. His value would just continue to plummet. Plateauing value is way better then crashing down value so this offseason is a good time to unload him.

Siakam, he still has room to grow. He just have to be mentally committed that he is a high dollar offensive option of this team night in and night out and when it matters most. Set that switch has to be “on” always, no excuses now. He also has to shy away from laying up the ball but most likely may have difficult palming that spalding that dunking is a lesser option. He however has the athleticism, motor and length to overcome a bad habit of laying it resulting to high frequency of being short, wrong use of the backboard causing a miss or just being blocked.

All that said, him and Van Vleet are a bad combination. They cannot co-exist. One has to go or both.

OG/ GTJ/ Flynn/ Harris have a long ways to go because of their age.

While Siakam and Van Vleet have narrow margin of error.

[Puffer]

In fairness to FVV, the Raps have a lot of bystanders at times and he was forced to carry an outsized load offensively far too often. If Toronto had a SG with lots of weapons, it would solve many problems, including the ball being in Fred's hands too much. Also, if the Raps are like every other team, they value layups and threes and that can lead to forcing things at the rim rather than shooting floaters (as SR points out is very helpful) or even pulling up for a jimmy (heaven forbid!).

And there is Good Fred and Bad Fred. Good Fred does a lot of the things we are talking about but then Bad Fred rears its head and goes in the opposite direction. Which is to say this isn't a case of reinventing a player but simply the player making better decisions consistently.

I value Fred highly, believe me. It just seems like if you were more of a threat to pass it out, you wouldn't get so many times where three guys are closing on you under the basket. I see the Raptors players standing still when he drives. Maybe it's because they don't expect a pass to come out. Chicken and egg situation I expect. I also don't know if Fred is just executing Nurse's strategy or being a little oblivious to the situation. Watching tape should help him out. Almost every time he got stuffed, there was a better play.

[golden]

In fairness to FVV, the Raps have a lot of bystanders at times and he was forced to carry an outsized load offensively far too often. If Toronto had a SG with lots of weapons, it would solve many problems, including the ball being in Fred's hands too much. Also, if the Raps are like every other team, they value layups and threes and that can lead to forcing things at the rim rather than shooting floaters (as SR points out is very helpful) or even pulling up for a jimmy (heaven forbid!).

And there is Good Fred and Bad Fred. Good Fred does a lot of the things we are talking about but then Bad Fred rears its head and goes in the opposite direction. Which is to say this isn't a case of reinventing a player but simply the player making better decisions consitently.

I'm pretty sure that Nurse wants his ball-handlers as a first option to take it hard to the rim with 2nd option being kick-out to shooters at the 3-pt line. I recall Nurse lamenting Malachi early in the season, saying he had to learn how to be more of a straight line driver, instead of east-west action. But the thing is... probing east-west & in-out is more of Malachi's natural game which is closer to Chris Paul, Tony Parker & even Luka as opposed to the hard drive & kick like Fred.

Some of that could also be Fred having tunnel vision, as we see a clear difference between Fred and Lowry on fast-breaks: Fred rarely passes, whereas Lowry seems to have eyes in the back of his head to find the trailer or make a pass for the easy layup/dunk.