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  • chris wrote: View Post

    ESPN don't. zach lowe had kevin pelton on his podcast today to discuss all-rookie and ROY, and said he asked pelton on because his ROY pick was going to be an outlier. pelton then went on to explain that he was all ready to pick barnes (which was the outlier zach was talking about), but then changed his mind right before the podcast to mobley based on the strength of mobley's adjusted +/- stats (which was pelton's same reason for having herb jones third above cade, lol).

    zach said it was close but he was still leaning mobley because he thought the most impactful skill either one of them has is mobley's defence.

    now i like both of these guys, but those are dumb fucking arguments. i'm not sure how much nuance is in those adjusted +/- stats... does it account for how tethered barnes' minutes are to birch's because nurse is obsessed with playing boucher and achiuwa together? every other raw and advanced metric favours scottie, shouldn't that count for something? who cares if mobley's defense is the single most impactful skill possessed by either player (which i'm skeptical is true but whatever) if scottie does more things better and is the more impactful player in aggregate?

    scottie for ROY is an uphill battle i think.
    Pelton got roasted by Raptor fans because he gave Masai/Bobby a D+ grade for drafting Barnes. Raptor twitterverse fans being the pathetic, insecure angry mob that they are, never let Pelton forget it. Pelton and Sam Vecenie got especially lambasted. Pretty sure those guys (and others) will vote for "anybody but Barnes", simply because they hate Raptors' online fans.

    Also, Pelton using adjusted +/- is yet another example of "advanced stats gone wrong".... like 538 RAPTOR at one point showing Pascal and OG in the mid-200's for defensive impact.

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    • chris wrote: View Post

      ESPN don't. zach lowe had kevin pelton on his podcast today to discuss all-rookie and ROY, and said he asked pelton on because his ROY pick was going to be an outlier. pelton then went on to explain that he was all ready to pick barnes (which was the outlier zach was talking about), but then changed his mind right before the podcast to mobley based on the strength of mobley's adjusted +/- stats (which was pelton's same reason for having herb jones third above cade, lol).

      zach said it was close but he was still leaning mobley because he thought the most impactful skill either one of them has is mobley's defence.

      now i like both of these guys, but those are dumb fucking arguments. i'm not sure how much nuance is in those adjusted +/- stats... does it account for how tethered barnes' minutes are to birch's because nurse is obsessed with playing boucher and achiuwa together? every other raw and advanced metric favours scottie, shouldn't that count for something? who cares if mobley's defense is the single most impactful skill possessed by either player (which i'm skeptical is true but whatever) if scottie does more things better and is the more impactful player in aggregate?

      scottie for ROY is an uphill battle i think.
      chris wrote: View Post

      that's heartening, and so did perk. but like, i don't think a lot of voters on the fence will be looking to see what stephen a and perk think. guys like lowe and pelton are kind of the brains of the operation at ESPN (so to speak). the ones that actually have insightful things to say and aren't just screaming at each other on the jump.
      Lol

      You just said one post prior that they have such dumb fuck arguments then followed it by saying that they have insightful things to say.

      which is which exactly?
      #GO-SOMEWHERE-ELSE-VANVLEET
      #JUST-GO-AWAY-MIDGET

      #THIS-IS-SCOTTIEā€™s-TEAM
      VanVleet the Chucking Midget Pylon

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      • Primer wrote: View Post

        This bias is entirely in our heads as far as ROY goes. Zero evidence that Raptor players get snubbed in ROY because we haven't had anyone deserving other than Vince and he won ROY.
        I guess we wait and see then. But if he loses, you still get to claim there's no bias. If he wins, you can claim proof of no bias
        But the evidence you're seeking is found this year already with the comments leading up to the vote. He should be third on no one's list.

        Comment


        • G__Deane wrote: View Post

          I guess we wait and see then. But if he loses, you still get to claim there's no bias. If he wins, you can claim proof of no bias
          But the evidence you're seeking is found this year already with the comments leading up to the vote. He should be third on no one's list.
          Nah if he loses I'll accept there is some bias. He should win hands down.

          Comment


          • quite the read. Some stuff we know but a lot of fun stories

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            • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

              bill simmons and KOC and vernon and ryan russillo all like barnes
              yes, i know. still don't think it bodes well that lowe thought voting barnes would be a contrarian view

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              • golden wrote: View Post

                Pelton got roasted by Raptor fans because he gave Masai/Bobby a D+ grade for drafting Barnes. Raptor twitterverse fans being the pathetic, insecure angry mob that they are, never let Pelton forget it. Pelton and Sam Vecenie got especially lambasted. Pretty sure those guys (and others) will vote for "anybody but Barnes", simply because they hate Raptors' online fans.

                Also, Pelton using adjusted +/- is yet another example of "advanced stats gone wrong".... like 538 RAPTOR at one point showing Pascal and OG in the mid-200's for defensive impact.
                yeah pelton defended himself on the D+ grade thing, and said it was a grade for the raptors entire offseason and not their draft which just had barnes' picture attached to it for some reason. said he liked the barnes pick but liked suggs a bit better, he didn't like the offseason signings, and the conclusion was that their offseason success or failure would come down to whether barnes would become better than suggs. i suspect he'd give us a higher grade if he re-evaluated now!

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                • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post



                  Lol

                  You just said one post prior that they have such dumb fuck arguments then followed it by saying that they have insightful things to say.

                  which is which exactly?
                  you got me. i forgot it is not possible to disagree with someone whom one finds to be generally insightful and intelligent.

                  nothin' gets past ol' claw

                  Comment


                  • Jclaw wrote: View Post
                    quite the read. Some stuff we know but a lot of fun stories

                    Just finished reading and came to post it as well. Better read than anything from Sportsnet, TSN, or the 55 other media outlets in Toronto.

                    The FVV quotes are pretty good stuff. I enjoyed his comment on the no-look passes along the lines of "how does this keep working?"

                    Comment


                    • slaw wrote: View Post

                      Just finished reading and came to post it as well. Better read than anything from Sportsnet, TSN, or the 55 other media outlets in Toronto.

                      The FVV quotes are pretty good stuff. I enjoyed his comment on the no-look passes along the lines of "how does this keep working?"
                      Fred also told Scottie to chill. But Scottie has no chill.

                      But Kareem famously told Magic to calm down because they had 81 games left. The Raptors are surely trying to make sure Barnes stays steady ... right?

                      "Yeah, well, I gave up on that a long time ago," VanVleet says, less than two weeks after opening night. "Me and him, we had our argument for the year. We had a conversation and we've been good ever since. You gotta let these guys grow and be who they want to be."

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                      • golden wrote: View Post

                        Fred also told Scottie to chill. But Scottie has no chill.
                        There's that part and then another quote from someone about how players will have to adapt to Barnes. Guys like Fred are smart enough to get it.

                        The Alvin Williams part about how JYD got on vets nerves made me laugh - cause that fucking guy drove me nuts.

                        Lots of great stuff in that article.

                        Comment


                        • We've known this and seen him call out plays, but its always nice to see other people reinforce it.

                          This can't be taught, the kid is special.

                          Young says that, from a young age, Barnes has had a gift that allows him to make plays others can't see. Draftniks call it processing speed. Young calls it high-speed Wi-Fi.
                          "Scottie, when he gets a video, it comes in quick. Instantly," he says. "He's like, 'Whooo, there's pretty good Wi-Fi here.' That's how he is on a basketball court. He can process plays and information so quick and make a decision at a high speed. That's rare."

                          Comment


                          • slaw wrote: View Post

                            Just finished reading and came to post it as well. Better read than anything from Sportsnet, TSN, or the 55 other media outlets in Toronto.

                            The FVV quotes are pretty good stuff. I enjoyed his comment on the no-look passes along the lines of "how does this keep working?"
                            But Kareem famously told Magic to calm down because they had 81 games left. The Raptors are surely trying to make sure Barnes stays steady ... right?

                            "Yeah, well, I gave up on that a long time ago," VanVleet says, less than two weeks after opening night. "Me and him, we had our argument for the year. We had a conversation and we've been good ever since. You gotta let these guys grow and be who they want to be."

                            Comment


                            • golden wrote: View Post

                              Fred also told Scottie to chill. But Scottie has no chill.
                              " It's funny at times.
                              Sometimes it's not funny. "
                              - Fred

                              Comment


                              • People should read the whole article, but I quoted my favorite parts. Raptor Jesus Christ we found a great one here.

                                At the NBA Draft Combine in Chicago, it seemed like Barnes knew every player in the gym. He wasn't participating in the five-on-five scrimmages, but there he was, all day, dribbling a basketball, joking around with prospects and cheering them on. Endearing as this sounds, to executives considering investing millions of dollars in him, it raised questions: Is he just everybody's buddy? Does this dude take anything seriously?

                                The Raptors contingent saw all of that, and then they interviewed him. By the end of their 30 minutes with Barnes, they felt not only like they knew all about him, but like he knew all about them. They were not put off when, in the hallways of Wintrust Arena and the Marriott Marquis, he hugged them "like he's known 'em his whole life," as Brian Macon puts it. Macon, Barnes' trainer since seventh grade, emphasizes that "it's no dap or a head nod, like you see with other players -- he's really hugging those guys."

                                To Macon, that's just Scottie. That same week, "I went to go get my credentials," he says, "and I'm like, 'I'm one of Scottie Barnes' trainers.' And [the people handing them out said], 'Oh, we love Scottie. He gives us hugs every time he sees us.'"

                                Brooklyn Nets big man Day'Ron Sharpe, who teamed with Barnes at Montverde Academy when they were high school seniors, describes Barnes as a "high-energy person. Goofy. He brightens up the room. His smile is contagious. You don't ever see Scott down, for real."

                                "He always wants everyone to be happy," says Tavarus Harris, who coached Barnes in his freshman year at Cardinal Newman High School in West Palm Beach, Florida. "He wants you smiling. It doesn't matter if you're a head coach, it doesn't matter if you're the ballboy, it doesn't matter if you're the water girl, it doesn't matter if you're the scorekeeper, it doesn't matter if you're a fan that's just checking him out. If you're not happy and you don't look happy, brace yourself: He's coming to hug you."

                                To talk to people who have been around Barnes is to be bombarded with similar sentiments: He is wired differently than other players his age. He is friends with everybody, but he's also savvy, maniacally competitive and obsessed with winning.
                                Basketball is Barnes' job now, but he says that watching film doesn't feel like work. Unlike plenty of his peers, he prefers full games to highlights. In November, after a one-point loss to the Cleveland Cavaliers at Scotiabank Arena, he ordered food and put on the Golden State Warriors vs. New Orleans Pelicans game. Jordan, who was visiting him, says Barnes was "standing in front of the TV and all into it."

                                Jordan says it wasn't unusual for Barnes to drive to LA Fitness and play for hours with whoever happened to be there, after a full day of school and a practice. Multiple people told the Raptors to make sure he doesn't find out where the local runs are.
                                When Carr's eight-year-old daughter, Lucia, is playing tennis and her energy dips, he will remind her to "be a Scottie." He is most proud, though, when she says it to herself as a pick-me-up.

                                "It just makes you feel good about the world," Carr says. "My little eight-year-old recognizes that hey, this is what I should be in life as a competitor. She'll say, 'I gotta be a Scottie today.'"
                                9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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