Everything Scottie Barnes

[planetmars]

Yeah wasn't so obvious to me because I expected both Flynn and banton to be better, but neither gets enough burn so how can they?

I was hoping Nurse would play the two kids more.. but based on history I didn't think he would. And I guess unfortunately I called that too.

[A.I]

I was hoping Nurse would play the two kids more.. but based on history I didn't think he would. And I guess unfortunately I called that too.

I feel like those 2 haven't helped themselves either. Whatever Nurse's criteria is, Koloko got thrown into the fire right away, so did Precious last season.

[planetmars]

I feel like those 2 haven't helped themselves either. Whatever Nurse's criteria is, Koloko got thrown into the fire right away, so did Precious last season.

Whatever intangibles he saw in a guy like McCaw he doesn't see in Banton or Flynn. No idea what it is.. maybe something he saw in practice. Maybe McCaw just knew his playbook and Banton/Flynn don't. No clue. But I imagine Nurse was talking to Bobby through the summer too. It was a miscall either way.

[Primer]

Whatever intangibles he saw in a guy like McCaw he doesn't see in Banton or Flynn. No idea what it is.. maybe something he saw in practice. Maybe McCaw just knew his playbook and Banton/Flynn don't. No clue. But I imagine Nurse was talking to Bobby through the summer too. It was a miscall either way.

Still think this is a way overblown complaint.

We have 3 high usage ball handlers in Pascal, Fred, and Scottie.

Barring injuries no other ball handler needed. That's a VERY tough sell on the free agent market.

Come to Toronto and gather dust on the bench unless shit hits the fan. Big reason Brogdon chose Celtics over us, they have tons of minutes for him. I think we would have made it work with Brogdon but it's not an obvious fit like with the Celtics.

Whoever would come here wouldn't be any better than Banton / Flynn.

[planetmars]

Still think this is a way overblown complaint.

We have 3 high usage ball handlers in Pascal, Fred, and Scottie.

Barring injuries no other ball handler needed. That's a VERY tough sell on the free agent market.

Come to Toronto and gather dust on the bench unless shit hits the fan. Big reason Brogdon chose Celtics over us, they have tons of minutes for him. I think we would have made it work with Brogdon but it's not an obvious fit like with the Celtics.

Whoever would come here wouldn't be any better than Banton / Flynn.

I disagree.. you tell Pascal, Fred and Scottie to each play below 36 minutes a game.. give the other guy 20+. We had Fred, Kyle, and Pascal in 2020 and they averaged about or below 36mpg.. McCaw still got around 20mpg. We were on pace for 60 wins that year too.

[TrueTorontoFan]

[LJ2]

I disagree.. you tell Pascal, Fred and Scottie to each play below 36 minutes a game.. give the other guy 20+. We had Fred, Kyle, and Pascal in 2020 and they averaged about or below 36mpg.. McCaw still got around 20mpg. We were on pace for 60 wins that year too.

The difficulty isn't finding a quality back-up guard, it's finding one that has those skills and can still defend at a high level. Not a lot of those on the market and fewer that don't have options among teams looking for their services.

[DanH]

Yes they should. Unfortunately, this team is not much to talk about without 2 of scottie, Fred and pascal on the floor, and right now, Pascal is more injured then the other 2.

Don't particularly care. Rest him if it's the right thing to do. See if young guards step up. If they don't, that's valuable information. And the most valuable thing is getting Scottie right.

[planetmars]

The difficulty isn't finding a quality back-up guard, it's finding one that has those skills and can still defend at a high level. Not a lot of those on the market and fewer that don't have options among teams looking for their services.

It's really a matter of priority. If we prioritized that position in the off season, we would have filled it. We didn't and now we're here. The sad truth is that Malachi and Dalano are just not good enough, and Nurse doesn't trust them. So he ended up overplaying Fred, Pascal and Scottie again. And now we have Pascal out with a groin injury. Fred playing with a bad back. And Scottie with a bum ankle.

It's a sucky situation, and some of us saw it coming a mile away.

[DanH]

It's really a matter of priority. If we prioritized that position in the off season, we would have filled it. We didn't and now we're here. The sad truth is that Malachi and Dalano are just not good enough, and Nurse doesn't trust them. So he ended up overplaying Fred, Pascal and Scottie again. And now we have Pascal out with a groin injury. Fred playing with a bad back. And Scottie with a bum ankle.

It's a sucky situation, and some of us saw it coming a mile away.

Meh. Scottie has been playing 33-34 MPG (taking out the effect of the game he played only 13 minutes of when he got hurt). I don't want him playing less than that. If he's hurt, he should be sitting, no matter who else is there for depth. If not, he should be playing those minutes.

Pascal has been under 36 MPG, and has broken 40 only twice. Again, I don't really want him playing fewer minutes than that. He got hurt slipping on a wet floor, that can happen anytime.

Fred has played too much. True.

As for the depth, I couldn't care less. If guys should be sitting, sit them. Lose games, or find out what else you have and surprise yourself with a couple wins. Either way you know more about your depth than you did before, and you get guys healthy. Playing through this stuff is just a bad idea. Organization should be taking a stronger stance on it is my preference. They clearly like to let the players take the lead though, and those guys always want to play.

[LJ2]

It's really a matter of priority. If we prioritized that position in the off season, we would have filled it. We didn't and now we're here. The sad truth is that Malachi and Dalano are just not good enough, and Nurse doesn't trust them. So he ended up overplaying Fred, Pascal and Scottie again. And now we have Pascal out with a groin injury. Fred playing with a bad back. And Scottie with a bum ankle.

It's a sucky situation, and some of us saw it coming a mile away.

I have to disagree about it being a matter of priority. It's a matter of fit.

I wanted the Raps to make a run at Rubio or Patty Mills for the same reasons as you, but I felt those guys could keep up with our defense first and foremost and also be productive in the offense. Not sure who else was available this summer which Raps would have been interested in. Delon probably is not giving you better defense than Banton and isn't moving the needle on offense so why would you invest minutes on him? Shroedder might have been a good get but he wasn't coming to Toronto for cheap and not known as a great defender and maybe not the right guy for the locker room.

[planetmars]

I have to disagree about it being a matter of priority. It's a matter of fit.

I wanted the Raps to make a run at Rubio or Patty Mills for the same reasons as you, but I felt those guys could keep up with our defense first and foremost and also be productive in the offense. Not sure who else was available this summer which Raps would have been interested in. Delon probably is not giving you better defense than Banton and isn't moving the needle on offense so why would you invest minutes on him? Shroedder might have been a good get but he wasn't coming to Toronto for cheap and not known as a great defender and maybe not the right guy for the locker room.

You don't need a needle mover.. just better depth. TJ McConnell is an answer. He's a decent backup guard who can play make and get a lot of steals/deflections.. and a guy the Pacers don't need in their system. The Bucks got Jevon Carter. He's playing over 24mpg.. and they have the best defense in the league, so it's not like he's hurting that stat. He was only worth $2M a year.

[Primer]

You don't need a needle mover.. just better depth. TJ McConnell is an answer. He's a decent backup guard who can play make and get a lot of steals/deflections.. and a guy the Pacers don't need in their system. The Bucks got Jevon Carter. He's playing over 24mpg.. and they have the best defense in the league, so it's not like he's hurting that stat. He was only worth $2M a year.

I don't think Jevon Carter is better than Banton, so we're truly splitting hairs here. There is no way we're a noticeably better team with Carter instead of Banton.

[LJ2]

You don't need a needle mover.. just better depth. TJ McConnell is an answer. He's a decent backup guard who can play make and get a lot of steals/deflections.. and a guy the Pacers don't need in their system. The Bucks got Jevon Carter. He's playing over 24mpg.. and they have the best defense in the league, so it's not like he's hurting that stat. He was only worth $2M a year.

How are either of those guys viable options for the Raptors when they weren't even on the market this off season? TJ played in 27 games last season and Carter 20 games only so not sure how Raptors were supposed to view those guys as good options for depth. And the point about being a needle mover is that if they are not then why bother bringing them when Banton and Flynn provide pretty much the same thing. Makes more sense to continue to develop our own guys.

[planetmars]

How are either of those guys viable options for the Raptors when they weren't even on the market this off season? TJ played in 27 games last season and Carter 20 games only so not sure how Raptors were supposed to view those guys as good options for depth. And the point about being a needle mover is that if they are not then why bother bringing them when Banton and Flynn provide pretty much the same thing. Makes more sense to continue to develop our own guys.

Banton is averaging 8mpg. Nurse doesn't like him very much. So sure let's develop our guys. Nurse doesn't want to though. You have to help Nurse help himself. I don't really know what he likes, but he doesn't like Banton or Flynn. I mean he liked McCaw for some reason or another (likely because he didn't turn the ball over). But the problem is he doesn't want to play our young kids.

So Bobby should have gotten him a vet or a different type of player that he would use. It's not sustainable to rely on only Pascal, Fred and Scottie as our only ball handlers. And it becomes apparent when one of the three are injured.