Everything Scottie Barnes

[slaw]

Yeah
Media people who never played competitive ball do not understand that

Especially old farts like DOUG SMITH

I never played competitive ball but I played fairly high level baseball and getting moved from third to second base my first year was an incredibly difficult adjustment - and that was just high school to college. I can't imagine what Barnes is doing playing PG, F and C at the pro level when he just started handling the ball in college (off the bench!).

Also why I've always said Precious is doing just fine. Dude went from rebound and set screens in Miami to defend 5 posiitons, rebound, bring the ball up the floor, shoot threes, beat guys one-on-one from 30 feet out and make plays in Toronto. Of course that's going to be a rough transition!

People need patience, especially when clearly talented guys simply require more time.

[SkywalkerAC]

I never played competitive ball but I played fairly high level baseball and getting moved from third to second base my first year was an incredibly difficult adjustment - and that was just high school to college. I can't imagine what Barnes is doing playing PG, F and C at the pro level when he just started handling the ball in college (off the bench!).

Also why I've always said Precious is doing just fine. Dude went from rebound and set screens in Miami to defend 5 posiitons, rebound, bring the ball up the floor, shoot threes, beat guys one-on-one from 30 feet out and make plays in Toronto. Of course that's going to be a rough transition!

People need patience, especially when clearly talented guys simply require more time.

All bang on, except Barnes definitely played some point before college.

[iblastoff]

past ROYS since 2010

2022 Scottie Barnes
2021 LaMelo Ball
2020 Ja Morant
2019 Luka Doncic
2018 Ben Simmons
2017 Malcolm Brogdon
2016 Karl-Anthony Towns
2015 Andrew Wiggins
2014 Michael Carter-Williams
2013 Damian Lillard
2012 Kyrie Irving
2011 Blake Griffin
2010 Tyreke Evans

only ROY players to NOT make an all-star appearance in their 2nd year are :
tyreke evans
michael carter williams
malcom brogdon
andrew wiggins
Ja Morant (made all-star in 3rd year)
KAT (made all-star in 3rd year)
and now scottie barnes.

mostly meaningless but just a comparison of how things are going.

EDIT: updated to reflect ROY since 2010, not "past 10 years" as i had originally written in it.

[slaw]

only ROY players to NOT make an all-star appearance in their 2nd year are :
tyreke evans
michael carter williams
malcom brogdon
andrew wiggins
Ja Morant (made all-star in 3rd year)
KAT (made all-star in 3rd year)
and now scottie barnes.

mostly meaningless but just a comparison of how things are going.

Well, that's 7 of 10, so not sure it tells you anything. Also, I believe the youngest guy this year is Haliburton (third season).

Look, it isn't Barnes' team. It's Fred's team and sometimes Pascal's. You aren't making the all-star game as the #3 (or #4 or #5) option on your team.

[A.I]

Well, that's 7 of 10, so not sure it tells you anything. Also, I believe the youngest guy this year is Haliburton (third season).

Look, it isn't Barnes' team. It's Fred's team and sometimes Pascal's. You aren't making the all-star game as the #3 (or #4 or #5) option on your team.

A lot of those ROTYs were "The guy" on their team as a rookie. If things change this trade deadline or in the off-season, I could see Scottie taking a leap to All-star next season.

[G__Deane]

A lot of those ROTYs were "The guy" on their team as a rookie. If things change this trade deadline or in the off-season, I could see Scottie taking a leap to All-star next season.

Well, the best rookies (draft class) tend to go generally to bad teams that can give them a major role, pump their useage/numbers up towards all star status. That wasn't the case for Scotty. Unless that high pick was acquired by a good team in a trade or they tanked for one year due to injuries (GSW).

[chris]

Well, that's 7 of 10, so not sure it tells you anything. Also, I believe the youngest guy this year is Haliburton (third season).

Look, it isn't Barnes' team. It's Fred's team and sometimes Pascal's. You aren't making the all-star game as the #3 (or #4 or #5) option on your team.

like i said in the game thread, both fred and pascal are guilty of being too ball dominant... but how do you watch this team and conclude it's fred's team?

pascal has the highest usage on this team by a country mile, as well as the highest assist percentage. that means the ball is in his hands most of the time. far more accurate to say it's his show, and that fred and other players occasionally get a turn (fred much more so than the other players)

[LJ2]

past 10 years of ROYs

2022 Scottie Barnes
2021 LaMelo Ball
2020 Ja Morant
2019 Luka Doncic
2018 Ben Simmons
2017 Malcolm Brogdon
2016 Karl-Anthony Towns
2015 Andrew Wiggins
2014 Michael Carter-Williams
2013 Damian Lillard
2012 Kyrie Irving
2011 Blake Griffin
2010 Tyreke Evans

only ROY players to NOT make an all-star appearance in their 2nd year are :
tyreke evans
michael carter williams
malcom brogdon
andrew wiggins
Ja Morant (made all-star in 3rd year)
KAT (made all-star in 3rd year)
and now scottie barnes.

mostly meaningless but just a comparison of how things are going.

Year 3 is normally the breakout year for young players. The hope is that management will figure out how to best build this team around Scottie and elevate him to more of a center piece after this deadline. It should help position him to have a big season next year.

[golden]

like i said in the game thread, both fred and pascal are guilty of being too ball dominant... but how do you watch this team and conclude it's fred's team?

pascal has the highest usage on this team by a country mile, as well as the highest assist percentage. that means the ball is in his hands most of the time. far more accurate to say it's his show, and that fred and other players occasionally get a turn (fred much more so than the other players)

DeMar had a higher USG than Lowry, but I think most people would say it was always more Lowry's team than DD's. At the very least, they were considered equals despite DeMar's higher USG. PGs tend to have a bigger impact than USG alone indicates.

[chris]

DeMar had a higher USG than Lowry, but I think most people would say it was always more Lowry's team than DD's. At the very least, they were considered equals despite DeMar's higher USG. PGs tend to have a bigger impact than USG alone indicates.

there's two big differences between the demar/lowry dynamic and fred/pascal dynamic that stand out to me:

1. the gap in usage between DD and lowry was never as close to the gap between pascal and fred is now, and
2. kyle's assist percentage was massively higher than DD's

the fact that pascal is also leading the team in assist percentage is an indicator of how ball dominant he is. like i said a few days ago, he's not at luka/houston harden/OKC westbrook/cavs lebron levels of heliocentricism, but when it's his 'turn' and he does have the ball it does look that ugly to me and everyone else is just a bystander.

[slaw]

like i said in the game thread, both fred and pascal are guilty of being too ball dominant... but how do you watch this team and conclude it's fred's team?

pascal has the highest usage on this team by a country mile, as well as the highest assist percentage. that means the ball is in his hands most of the time. far more accurate to say it's his show, and that fred and other players occasionally get a turn (fred much more so than the other players)

It's not all about numbers, statistics and percentages...

[chris]

It's not all about numbers, statistics and percentages...

yeah i know that but the eye test also tells me that pascal iso's way too much.

i suppose you're talking more about personality and leadership, which i've always viewed intangibles as a strength of fred's, but i'm willing accept there's a possibility that's clashing with scottie as well (who is also a natural leader)

[golden]

there's two big differences between the demar/lowry dynamic and fred/pascal dynamic that stand out to me:

1. the gap in usage between DD and lowry was never as close to the gap between pascal and fred is now, and
2. kyle's assist percentage was massively higher than DD's

the fact that pascal is also leading the team in assist percentage is an indicator of how ball dominant he is. like i said a few days ago, he's not at luka/houston harden/OKC westbrook/cavs lebron levels of heliocentricism, but when it's his 'turn' and he does have the ball it does look that ugly to me and everyone else is just a bystander.

You might be a bit confused here: AST% and USG% don't add. AST% is only counted when your teammate makes a bucket off your assist. It's strictly a result. You can just stick to USG% to make your point about ball dominance.

If your argument is that Pascal's AST% to USG% ratio should be higher to justify a Siakam helio-centric offense, then you might have "some" kind of point, since his AST/USG ratio is slightly below 1. But so are other high usage players, like SGA, Tatum, KD, Jaylen Brown, PG, Kyrie, Mitchell,.... you could go on and on. Some of those guys are much further below 1 than Pascal.

[chris]

You might be a bit confused here: AST% and USG% don't add. AST% is only counted when your teammate makes a bucket off your assist. It's strictly a result. You can just stick to USG% to make your point about ball dominance.

If your argument is that Pascal's AST% to USG% ratio should be higher to justify a Siakam helio-centric offense, then you might have "some" kind of point, since his AST/USG ratio is slightly below 1. But so are other high usage players, like SGA, Tatum, KD, Jaylen Brown, PG, Kyrie, Mitchell,.... you could go on and on. Some of those guys are much further below 1 than Pascal.

i'm not confused at all and understand what each statistic is. but if you lead your team in AST% it means you're assisting on the highest percentage of teammates buckets while you're on the floor (i.e. which you need to have the ball a lot to do, like a point guard). if you're leading the team in usage, it means you're leading the team in the sum of shots and turnovers while you're on the floor, which you also need the ball to do.

if you lead the team in both it means you have the ball A LOT.

i don't have the inclination to check but i'd be very surprised if any of the players you listed led their teams in both categories. that's reserved for uber heliocentric players like luka, houston harden, OKC westbrook, cavs lebron... i.e. the guys that make all the plays for their teams, both for themselves and their teammates.

but thanks for condescending as always golden and assuming the poster you're chatting with doesn't understand what they're talking about.

[iblastoff]

Well, that's 7 of 10, so not sure it tells you anything. Also, I believe the youngest guy this year is Haliburton (third season).

Look, it isn't Barnes' team. It's Fred's team and sometimes Pascal's. You aren't making the all-star game as the #3 (or #4 or #5) option on your team.

actually thats 7 of 13. i set it up incorrectly. supposed to be ROYS since 2010, not past 10 years. but i also think its not just the # who don't make it, but the actual players. just doesnt look great when you're in the company of tyreke evans, mcw, etc. but yep heres hoping year #3 is the larger leap.