Everything Scottie Barnes

[Kagemusha]

https://youtube.com/shorts/oPrJjXC_sNc?feature=share

Surround this kid with the right pieces and he will deliver.

Player 1:

15.7 ppg

45.0 fg%

37.3 3pt%

6.0 reb

2.1 ast

1.1 stl

Player 2:

15.3 ppg

45.6 fg%

28.1 3pt%

6.6 reb

4.8 ast

1.1 stl

Year 2 stats:

Player 1 is Tatum
player 2 Scottie

Many folks here got too pampered by his ROTY explosion and lost faith when he 'struggled' in year 2 despite all the team drama and dysfunction, and all the things that went wrong.

[The Claw Reborn]

Surround this kid with the right pieces and he will deliver.

Player 1:

15.7 ppg

45.0 fg%

37.3 3pt%

6.0 reb

2.1 ast

1.1 stl

Player 2:

15.3 ppg

45.6 fg%

28.1 3pt%

6.6 reb

4.8 ast

1.1 stl

Year 2 stats:

Player 1 is Tatum
player 2 Scottie

Many folks here got too pampered by his ROTY explosion and lost faith when he 'struggled' in year 2 despite all the team drama and dysfunction, and all the things that went wrong.

I am excited

[SkywalkerAC]

Surround this kid with the right pieces and he will deliver.

Many folks here got too pampered by his ROTY explosion and lost faith when he 'struggled' in year 2 despite all the team drama and dysfunction, and all the things that went wrong.

Yup, sophomore slump is a thing for a reason. Opposing teams know you and key in more effectively if you’re an impact player at all. Meanwhile, the skill foundation and fundamentals are all playing catch up towards NBA veteran levels.

And of course you have to ask the question - was the player put in challenging roles and scenarios different from as a rookie? Those new looks and challenges impact production but they also impact learning.

Remember when DeMar couldn’t navigate a double team to save his life? In the short term he struggled, in the longer team he became a better player thanks in no small part to those struggles.

Now, some players just aren’t up to the challenge, but the ones that are…

[Primer]

Yup, sophomore slump is a thing for a reason. Opposing teams know you and key in more effectively if you’re an impact player at all. Meanwhile, the skill foundation and fundamentals are all playing catch up towards NBA veteran levels.

And of course you have to ask the question - was the player put in challenging roles and scenarios different from as a rookie? Those new looks and challenges impact production but they also impact learning.

Remember when DeMar couldn’t navigate a double team to save his life? In the short term he struggled, in the longer team he became a better player thanks in no small part to those struggles.

Now, some players just aren’t up to the challenge, but the ones that are…

I think the issue is Scottie's production is capped as long as he's playing next to Pascal. Move Pascal for a piece that fits better with Scottie and you'll see his numbers start to climb.

[Kagemusha]

Yup, sophomore slump is a thing for a reason. Opposing teams know you and key in more effectively if you’re an impact player at all. Meanwhile, the skill foundation and fundamentals are all playing catch up towards NBA veteran levels.

And of course you have to ask the question - was the player put in challenging roles and scenarios different from as a rookie? Those new looks and challenges impact production but they also impact learning.

Remember when DeMar couldn’t navigate a double team to save his life? In the short term he struggled, in the longer team he became a better player thanks in no small part to those struggles.

Now, some players just aren’t up to the challenge, but the ones that are…

True.
Scottie is a gym rat who loves to keep adding to his game.
He looks up to Kobe who has a legendary work ethic.
Safe to assume that he will figure things out and succeed.

[Yuri Gagarin]

He’s gonna excel without crusty around

[The Claw Reborn]

He’s gonna excel without crusty around

[DanH]

I think the issue is Scottie's production is capped as long as he's playing next to Pascal. Move Pascal for a piece that fits better with Scottie and you'll see his numbers start to climb.

I think step one is Scottie showing us his production improves even slightly when Pascal sits before we leap to a conclusion like this, which he has not remotely done.

[Primer]

I think step one is Scottie showing us his production improves even slightly when Pascal sits before we leap to a conclusion like this, which he has not remotely done.

Nah, I've watched the games the past 2 years, I know Pascal's game and Scottie's game. I don't need to see Pascal being in the way a 3rd straight year before I'll accept it. This is where your overreliance on stats and underreliance on what you see during games becomes an issue. You'll gladly let Scottie waste another season so you can get a big enough sample size to confirm what we can clearly see watching them play together. This is not just me either, watch the Podcast discussing our offense from RR main page, they all see it too.

But since you want some stats, here you go.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...211190ATL.html

Pascal was out this game. Scottie went 28 pts, 11 reb, 9 ast, 1 stl, 2 blks

Nearly led us to victory with a starting lineup that contained Thad and Juancho. Get Pascal out of the way and Scottie will shine.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...303100LAL.html

Here's another. Pascal played but Scottie got the bulk of the usage, 25.8% vs Pascal 16.4%.

Scottie put up 32 pts, 9 reb, 7 ast, 1 stl

https://www.basketball-reference.com...303310PHI.html

Here another where Scottie got the bulk of the usage, 25.6% Scottie to 20.2% Pascal.

Scottie put up 29 pts, 9 reb, 8 ast, 4 stl, 1 blk

Scottie only has monster games when Pascal is out or Pascal has way less usage than normal. Seems pretty obvious to me if we want these monster games to become the norm we need Pascal out of the way.

Also very interesting that when Scottie has these monster games, OG tends to have a monster game too. Get Pascal out of the way and build around Scottie and OG.

[DanH]

Right, so from your second example game, Pascal is not the least in Scottie's way, if Scottie just takes the primary role he does very well. I'm hoping he does that.

You could also be reading the causality completely wrong - when Scottie is doing good stuff, Pascal just steps back because of course, he doesn't need to iso drag the team into a functional offence. But when Scottie is doing his usual passive stuff, Pascal has no such option available to him.

I do love the cherry picking though. That totally proves it, rather than the huge sample of minutes played over the course of multiple seasons. If Scottie were a slingshot ready to launch, only being held back by Pascal beside him on the floor, we'd see that whenever Pascal rests, Scottie would play better. Consistently. Sadly, we haven't seen that, yet. We see flashes - but of course we see plenty of flashes when Pascal is there too, as you so rightly pointed out.

For example! Pascal didn't just miss a couple games. He missed basically all of November. While he was out, Scottie played in 8 games. In those 8 games, he put up 37 MPG, 14.4 points, 7 rebounds, 5 assists, just 2.3 turnovers and a 39% FG%, averaging a 11.3 game score. He had OG, Gary and Fred beside him in most of those starting lineups, so plenty of spacing compared to the Pascal lineups. (There were actually 4 games with a full lineup like that and 4 with more mixed lineups, but he was even worse in the full lineup games than the stats here so I just kept all 8 for the bigger sample and kinder results to Scottie).

For reference, on the season Scottie put up 15.3 points, 7 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 turnovers and a 46% FG%, averaging a 13.2 game score.

We can even zoom out and just look month by month, leaving out Oct and April which are just a handful of games each, November, where Pascal missed a huge chunk of time, was Scottie's worst month by far in terms of personal production.

Nov 13 PPG, 44% TS%
Dec 15.3 PPG, 53% TS%
Jan 18.1 PPG, 58% TS%
Feb 14.5 PPG, 48% TS%
Mar 17.2 PPG, 55% TS%

Personally I have very high hopes for Scottie to take a leap. And if Pascal gets traded I sure hope it turns out to be the magical reason why Scottie hasn't taken the leap yet. But to pretend there is any evidence of that is to ignore reality. Scottie simply put has shown literally zero sign of struggling beside Pascal and succeeding away from him. To believe his game is being impacted by Pascal rather than the simpler explanation of the NBA learning curve and developmental process of (hopefully) an eventual star, is built on just that - belief, and only that.

[Primer]

Right, so from your second example game, Pascal is not the least in Scottie's way, if Scottie just takes the primary role he does very well. I'm hoping he does that.

You could also be reading the causality completely wrong - when Scottie is doing good stuff, Pascal just steps back because of course, he doesn't need to iso drag the team into a functional offence. But when Scottie is doing his usual passive stuff, Pascal has no such option available to him.

I do love the cherry picking though. That totally proves it, rather than the huge sample of minutes played over the course of multiple seasons. If Scottie were a slingshot ready to launch, only being held back by Pascal beside him on the floor, we'd see that whenever Pascal rests, Scottie would play better. Consistently. Sadly, we haven't seen that, yet. We see flashes - but of course we see plenty of flashes when Pascal is there too, as you so rightly pointed out.

For example! Pascal didn't just miss a couple games. He missed basically all of November. While he was out, Scottie played in 8 games. In those 8 games, he put up 37 MPG, 14.4 points, 7 rebounds, 5 assists, just 2.3 turnovers and a 39% FG%, averaging a 11.3 game score. He had OG, Gary and Fred beside him in most of those starting lineups, so plenty of spacing compared to the Pascal lineups. (There were actually 4 games with a full lineup like that and 4 with more mixed lineups, but he was even worse in the full lineup games than the stats here so I just kept all 8 for the bigger sample and kinder results to Scottie).

For reference, on the season Scottie put up 15.3 points, 7 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 turnovers and a 46% FG%, averaging a 13.2 game score.

We can even zoom out and just look month by month, leaving out Oct and April which are just a handful of games each, November, where Pascal missed a huge chunk of time, was Scottie's worst month by far in terms of personal production.

Nov 13 PPG, 44% TS%
Dec 15.3 PPG, 53% TS%
Jan 18.1 PPG, 58% TS%
Feb 14.5 PPG, 48% TS%
Mar 17.2 PPG, 55% TS%

Personally I have very high hopes for Scottie to take a leap. And if Pascal gets traded I sure hope it turns out to be the magical reason why Scottie hasn't taken the leap yet. But to pretend there is any evidence of that is to ignore reality. Scottie simply put has shown literally zero sign of struggling beside Pascal and succeeding away from him. To believe his game is being impacted by Pascal rather than the simpler explanation of the NBA learning curve and developmental process of (hopefully) an eventual star, is built on just that - belief, and only that.

I told you from the start I don't need stats because I have freaking eyeballs and watch the games and it's super obvious to me, many other posters here, and the RR staff and their guest in the latest podcast.

The cherry picking was a retort to you wanting another season of Pascal in the way before you will finally accept that they are a shitty fit together.

Scottie won't magically be amazing every game Pascal is out. He's 21 years old. He will need time to develop as the starting and sole PF in the starting lineup. Then those big games will become more regular.

I love Pascal as a player but him and Scottie are incompatible. Which again is super obvious to just about everyone. Time for you to accept that reality, we will never ever be a contender with Pascal and Scottie playing together. Scottie will never develop into a star playing next to Pascal.

[G____Deane]

Even of Scotty makes a magic leap without Pascal, we still would then need to find his Batman or Robin to be a contender. A guy like Pascal in a different position? Because Scotty, OG, Gary and Grady aren't winning .... Dick

[Primer]

Even of Scotty makes a magic leap without Pascal, we still would then need to find his Batman or Robin to be a contender. A guy like Pascal in a different position? Because Scotty, OG, Gary and Grady aren't winning .... Dick

We didn't even make the playoffs with Pascal. So we are hunting for Scottie's Batman or Robin regardless. If we move Pascal we have a much better chance of Scottie becoming Batman.

[Yuri Gagarin]

Dan never wants to move players until its too late

[SkywalkerAC]

If Magic could work his magic with great forwards, Scottie should be able to as well. Just needs more pull-up in his game due to the demands of the modern game but relax, it’s on its way.

Scottie is going to be the starting point guard on what I’m going to guess is a pretty competitive team. Might be a wild ride but it’s also pretty fucking cool.

And some of these transition lineups are going to be dynamite as he switches on a dime to point centre to see if we can run up the score with true shooting on the court.

Dennis
Gradey
Jr
OG
Scottie

It’s a weird team around him but there’s not much reason to think it’ll be a bad team. I’m very curious to see how it all looks. Scottie needs to be able to shoot and attack off the dribble and make quick decisions. Not too much to ask.