Everything Scottie Barnes

[DanH]

Name one NBA offense from the past 20 years that had 2 non shooting PF playing next to a non shooting C in the starting lineup. Other than the Raptors that is. If it's got a chance of being successful surely its been done before.

Pascal is not a high end number 2 option for Scottie. Just like Nurkic was not a high end second option for Jokic.

Well this is easy to answer. Scottie is not a PF. We don't know that Scottie will perpetually be a non-shooter. Pascal doesn't really qualify as a non-shooter given his midrange success and his historical success from the corners. Generally Pascal has had one awful three point shooting season over the last 5 years (the COVID year) and otherwise has put up 37%, 36%, 34% and 32% seasons. Overall 34% over the past 5 years including the COVID year, on solid volume, even with him taking way too many pull up threes. That's not a non-shooter. It's just a below average shooter.

Nurkic is not a high end second option for anyone, ever. When has he ever anywhere near as good as Pascal? His highest accomplishment in the NBA is all-rookie 2nd team. Using him as a proxy for Pascal just makes your position seem even more ridiculous.

[Primer]

Well this is easy to answer. Scottie is not a PF. We don't know that Scottie will perpetually be a non-shooter. Pascal doesn't really qualify as a non-shooter given his midrange success and his historical success from the corners. Generally Pascal has had one awful three point shooting season over the last 5 years (the COVID year) and otherwise has put up 37%, 36%, 34% and 32% seasons. Overall 34% over the past 5 years including the COVID year, on solid volume, even with him taking way too many pull up threes. That's not a non-shooter. It's just a below average shooter.

Nurkic is not a high end second option for anyone, ever. When has he ever anywhere near as good as Pascal? His highest accomplishment in the NBA is all-rookie 2nd team. Using him as a proxy for Pascal just makes your position seem even more ridiculous.

So you can't name a single team over the past 20 years that had two forwards (removed the word power for you) who can't shoot paired with a center that can't shoot? Or do you wanna take a stab at it now that I removed the offending word Power?

You also didn't bother to rebut the on court analysis from the RR podcast, which clearly lays out why Pascal and Scottie do not work together. I know you'd have to peel yourself away from pure numbers and talk real basketball but it would at least illuminate how you think an offense with those two guys playing together works in on court basketball terms.

[DanH]

So you can't name a single team over the past 20 years that had two forwards (removed the word power for you) who can't shoot paired with a center that can't shoot? Or do you wanna take a stab at it now that I removed the offending word Power?

You also didn't bother to rebut the on court analysis from the RR podcast, which clearly lays out why Pascal and Scottie do not work together. I know you'd have to peel yourself away from pure numbers and talk real basketball but it would at least illuminate how you think an offense with those two guys playing together works in on court basketball terms.

Well, as I noted, Pascal is a perfectly fine spot up shooter - not a plus threat, but fine in terms of fitting beside a non-shooter. You can just look at how he was used in the offence with Kawhi here for any sets where he is off ball. I think there could be a lot of creative stuff with them working off each other in screen actions, and a lot of interesting stuff working them around Jak high post playmaking, with each of them running off ball screen/curl actions for the shooters on the floor. Pascal and Scottie are not non-threats to the point that defences can ignore them - if they catch the ball in the midrange with room to attack the paint with speed, even if defenders are collapsed, that will cause issues for the defence. They aren't your typical unskilled big C who you have time to rotate to, these guys can beat defenders to the rim or punish you from the midrange (for Scottie this is predictive, but so is much of the Scottie stuff) if you aren't closing out to them.

[SkywalkerAC]

Scottie isn't a non-shooter either. Expecting at least 32% from three this year.

[TomAmnot]

Scottie isn't a non-shooter either. Expecting at least 32% from three this year.

With about 0.5 to 1 three point shots taken more than last season. Must get over 1 make per game.

[SkywalkerAC]

With about 0.5 to 1 three point shots taken more than last season. Must get over 1 make per game.

Yeah, I'd be kinda shocked if he didn't bump up to over a three made per game.

[SkywalkerAC]

After years of argument that Fred wasn't a point guard, are we going to have the same with Scottie?

[MixxAOR]

He really needs to make a jump or we bottom out and keep looking to add talent

[A.I]

He really needs to make a jump or we bottom out and keep looking to add talent

He has it in him, just needs to get his conditioning up (which he is working on this summer) and aggressiveness. He did pass it off too often to Fred and Pascal last season. Whether that was the strategy or just Scottie, we'll find out.

[golden]

With about 0.5 to 1 three point shots taken more than last season. Must get over 1 make per game.

For a PG, it probably needs to be at least over 1.5 made 3s per game and at 36% or higher. If not, you'd better be super-elite at something else, like getting to the rim.

[SkywalkerAC]

Worth checking out a young Jason Kidd as a comparison (who even back then shot enough 3s to keep the defense honest even though he wasn’t great at it). Actually shot an ok percentage as a 22 year old like Barnes will be this season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../kiddja01.html

[Kagemusha]

Worth checking out a young Jason Kidd as a comparison (who even back then shot enough 3s to keep the defense honest even though he wasn’t great at it). Actually shot an ok percentage as a 22 year old like Barnes will be this season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../kiddja01.html

Lowry shot 25% from 3 in his year 2 and 3.

[WJF]

After years of argument that Fred wasn't a point guard, are we going to have the same with Scottie?

I am still on the side of Scottie not being a point guard. I want him to handle the ball in transition on grab and go rebounds or off a quick outlet when the opportunity arrises, also in the half court using his passig chops to drive, draw, and dish offf of actions. I don't want him bringing the ball up the floor all game and initiating pick and rolls, I also don't want to see him as the primary defender on the opposing team's point guard. On switches, for a different look on a few possesions, or in some alternate lineup situations I am all for it.

I've said this before, pairing Scottie with a point guard like Alvin Williams was would be my top choice.

[LJ2]

He really needs to make a jump or we bottom out and keep looking to add talent

He does need to make a jump, but we are going to need to look to add talent regardless. We need a guard that can create some rim pressure, we need a big that can space the floor, and we may need better depth (will see what that looks like this season).

[G____Deane]

I am still on the side of Scottie not being a point guard. I want him to handle the ball in transition on grab and go rebounds or off a quick outlet when the opportunity arrises, also in the half court using his passig chops to drive, draw, and dish offf of actions. I don't want him bringing the ball up the floor all game and initiating pick and rolls, I also don't want to see him as the primary defender on the opposing team's point guard. On switches, for a different look on a few possesions, or in some alternate lineup situations I am all for it.

I've said this before, pairing Scottie with a point guard like Alvin Williams was would be my top choice.

Alvin is too old and his knees are shot