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  • Kagemusha wrote: View Post

    Scottie has not been dialed in lately.
    We all know what he can do.
    right but he has always had issues with maintaining consistent focus for the past two years where he would show up in the 4th quarter as a savior but not for the whole game.



    He will be solid as a player he will not be THE GUY. IT is hard to shift away from that kind of mentality if it festers for too long.

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    • Primer wrote: View Post

      With his physical advantages he doesn't need a deep bag. Run plays to get him a mismatch and let him attack it. Unfortunately our coach sucks.

      This is one of the rare instances where a new coach would fix almost all the problems.

      Gonna be so upset if Masai drags his feet to "give Darko a chance" and we waste half of next season sucking before he finally fires Darko.

      He made a bad hire, recognize that and fix it.
      Well getting rid of Fred was supposed to fix everything and it didn't, then it was getting rid of Pascal, and Dennis that fixes it all, but it's even worse now. Now let's fire Darko and that will fix everything? C'mon man, we can't just keep firing or trading guys and think all the issues will get solved.

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      • golden wrote: View Post

        Does Scottie even want to be a leader & face-of-the-franchise/league? Maybe he's just happy being a great teammate. Is Masai being a Stage Dad?
        darko has said his goal is not just to be an all-star and that he wants to be one of the league's best, so take that for what it's worth coming from his coach. but perhaps his frustration is because he has high expectations of himself.

        golden wrote: View Post
        And I got flamed for saying Scottie had a shallow bag, but it's pretty clear now... isn't it? His go-to move is basically bully ball from the post, but that only works against certain bigs.

        I agree... the frustration is probably Scottie being frustrated at himself for not being able to impose his will on the game (i.e., because of his shallow bag). Players express frustration in different ways. I remember Bosh crying after losing games. lol.
        not sure i'd say he has a deep bag at the moment, but he's still probably the most versatile scorer on the team. he's shown the ability to hit both spot-up and pull-up jumpers, including above the break 3's, turn-around jumpers, an array of hooks in the post, and is pretty effective going to the basket. it's not bad for a guy labelled a zero-level scorer coming into the league. and when he's not doubled he's shown he can score off the dribble in isolation at times too. if he can tighten up his handle and further improve the mid-range jumper he'll have access to a much deeper bag.

        he's struggling since the pascal and OG trades because he's the focus of the defense and seeing more doubles than anybody.

        compare him to RJ, who i've seen a number of posters label the best player on the team since the trade, and you yourself state that he's replaced pascal's offense and could maybe get to 25-30 ppg some day... RJ's been super efficient, but scores entirely attacking the basket downhill and on wide-open spot up threes, and rarely against set defenses or facing doubles. his job is just way easier. he's not replacing pascal's offense because pascal was getting the hard buckets, which is something scottie is struggling to do and RJ is not asked to do. if RJ ever gets to 25-30 ppg, it'll be because he's either playing off a superstar number 1 option who attracts most of the defensive attention, or because he develops skillsets he hasn't shown any flashes of yet.

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        • LJ2 wrote: View Post

          Well getting rid of Fred was supposed to fix everything and it didn't, then it was getting rid of Pascal, and Dennis that fixes it all, but it's even worse now. Now let's fire Darko and that will fix everything? C'mon man, we can't just keep firing or trading guys and think all the issues will get solved.
          Getting rid of Fred and Pascal were not meant to install Scottie as the main guy.
          Getting rid of them were due to contractual and timeline issues.

          Comment


          • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

            right but he has always had issues with maintaining consistent focus for the past two years where he would show up in the 4th quarter as a savior but not for the whole game.



            He will be solid as a player he will not be THE GUY. IT is hard to shift away from that kind of mentality if it festers for too long.
            He is still young and immature.
            I agree, I am leaning more towards a Robin type. Had been for a while.

            Comment


            • LJ2 wrote: View Post

              Well getting rid of Fred was supposed to fix everything and it didn't, then it was getting rid of Pascal, and Dennis that fixes it all, but it's even worse now. Now let's fire Darko and that will fix everything? C'mon man, we can't just keep firing or trading guys and think all the issues will get solved.
              yeah i agree with this. i'm not sure there are any quick fixes here, these are just growing pains that should be expected. the dude is 22 and was a pretty raw offensive player coming into the league. he's made huge improvements and there's reason to expect he'll continue to improve.

              Comment


              • LJ2 wrote: View Post

                Well getting rid of Fred was supposed to fix everything and it didn't, then it was getting rid of Pascal, and Dennis that fixes it all, but it's even worse now. Now let's fire Darko and that will fix everything? C'mon man, we can't just keep firing or trading guys and think all the issues will get solved.
                I'm not putting Scottie's stuff on Darko, but the lack of game planning from the coaches is a concern.

                I'm not worried about Scottie yet. People wanted to lose games, well here it is. We also have a super talented player, even with some concerns, so win win.

                Comment


                • LJ2 wrote: View Post

                  Well getting rid of Fred was supposed to fix everything and it didn't, then it was getting rid of Pascal, and Dennis that fixes it all, but it's even worse now. Now let's fire Darko and that will fix everything? C'mon man, we can't just keep firing or trading guys and think all the issues will get solved.
                  Multiple things can be issues, not sure why that's controversial. We've got the right players around Scottie now, so one issue is fixed. Fix the coaching and we're set.

                  Do you think Darko is a good coach?

                  Is our abysmal defense all Scottie's fault?
                  Last edited by Primer; Tue Feb 13, 2024, 01:54 PM.

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                  • s
                    Kagemusha wrote: View Post

                    He is still young and immature.
                    I agree, I am leaning more towards a Robin type. Had been for a while.
                    I will be even harsher. AT BEST robin. You need your top 2 guys in today's era to be dependable and consistent. Barnes talent wise will be better than pascal but I fear he wont have the consistency that pascal ever had for that reason he would be a phenomenal number 3. Kind of like Lamar Odom. He would likely be better than any number 3 WHEN HE FOCUSES than any one else and border on being a #2 but not be a #2.

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                    • Kagemusha wrote: View Post

                      Getting rid of Fred and Pascal were not meant to install Scottie as the main guy.
                      Getting rid of them were due to contractual and timeline issues.
                      You guys keep moving the goal post.

                      You guys wanted to trade FVV last year so Scottie can be the main facilitator on offense. There are others who kept using "pecking order" as an excuse for Scottie's passiveness. Some accused FVV of being selfish and somehow created a narrative that Scottie and Fred hate each other and that Nick favors FVV.

                      This year there were people who kept talking about trading Siakam for various reasons. Like how they can't co exist, but mostly it's for Scottie to be the main guy.

                      Well, Scottie is the main guy now. Nick Nurse is not here anymore. Fred, Pascal and OG are not here anymore. There's no more pecking order. What's the new excuse?
                      Mamba Mentality

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                      • The Great One wrote: View Post

                        You guys keep moving the goal post.

                        You guys wanted to trade FVV last year so Scottie can be the main facilitator on offense. There are others who kept using "pecking order" as an excuse for Scottie's passiveness. Some accused FVV of being selfish and somehow created a narrative that Scottie and Fred hate each other and that Nick favors FVV.

                        This year there were people who kept talking about trading Siakam for various reasons. Like how they can't co exist, but mostly it's for Scottie to be the main guy.

                        Well, Scottie is the main guy now. Nick Nurse is not here anymore. Fred, Pascal and OG are not here anymore. There's no more pecking order. What's the new excuse?
                        Not enough help
                        Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

                        Comment


                        • Primer wrote: View Post

                          Multiple things can be issues, not sure why that's controversial. We've got the right players around Scottie now, so one issue is fixed. Fix the coaching and we're set.

                          Do you think Darko is a good coach?

                          Is our abysmal defense all Scottie's fault?
                          I don't think it's controversial, but you can't just keep turning over the roster and coaching team thinking it's going to fix things. We had issues when Nurse was here too. Next maybe we start changing up the management team as well? At some point you have to stick to a plan and see it through.

                          Darko hasn't proven himself to be a great coach, but I don't necessarily think he was brought in to be a great game manager or tactician. He's a developmental coach and he's got Scottie playing at an All Star level, Gradey is coming out of his funk, and RJ is having the best stretch of his career maybe? He's got work to do with IQ and Ochai but all this will take some time.

                          Darko said he doesn't want to skip steps and I take that to mean he'll sacrifice winning for development. That could explain some of the weird line up's and minutes he plays guys. Like why else do would you play Scottie with no other scoring options or ball handlers unless you want to put him into scenarios where defenses are focusing on him and he's got to figure it out? Why would you take out a red hot Gradey last night unless you want to build his confidence slowly?

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                          • MixxAOR wrote: View Post

                            Not enough help
                            I'm sticking with "shallow bag".

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                            • Kagemusha wrote: View Post

                              Getting rid of Fred and Pascal were not meant to install Scottie as the main guy.
                              Getting rid of them were due to contractual and timeline issues.
                              Bro, where've you been?

                              Comment


                              • The Great One wrote: View Post

                                You guys keep moving the goal post.

                                You guys wanted to trade FVV last year so Scottie can be the main facilitator on offense. There are others who kept using "pecking order" as an excuse for Scottie's passiveness. Some accused FVV of being selfish and somehow created a narrative that Scottie and Fred hate each other and that Nick favors FVV.

                                This year there were people who kept talking about trading Siakam for various reasons. Like how they can't co exist, but mostly it's for Scottie to be the main guy.

                                Well, Scottie is the main guy now. Nick Nurse is not here anymore. Fred, Pascal and OG are not here anymore. There's no more pecking order. What's the new excuse?
                                Management tried to sign Fred and Pascal to terms they think are suitable to them, ie not the main guys.
                                The idea was to have Scottie lead/facilitate but that didn't obviously work.
                                Fred bet on himself and hijacked the offense, Pascal played like shit and Scottie deferred.
                                The ideal scenario that we hope didn't pan out for many different reasons not solely Barnes.

                                Now after the dust has settled, can you honestly say this coach ia embracing Scottie as the main guy based on the plays he is calling on the floor?
                                Despite all the usual cringy declarations, do we really see it in actual games? NO.

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