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  • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

    he gets blown by at times
    Yeah but who doesnt. I havent watched much of the road trip so I cant speak to recent games, but his energy level defensively has tapered off from what I've seen since the first 5-10 games. He might be just getting used to the grind and the system and the whistle, but he can be a great perimeter defender. Plus, it would negate most mis matches from switching the PnR, as he is big enough to guard just about anyone. I love Scottie guarding the perimeter, I think there is a load of potential with him swallowing up ball handlers.

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    • A.I wrote: View Post

      Draymond works as a facilitator because of how elite Curry is moving off ball.

      Scottie gets beat by the smaller, quicker guards on defense. He'd be best defending the PF/SF spots and basically playing team defense like Draymond does.
      Yes of course, but there is little reason to think that fred and gary cant be great at moving off ball. Neither would ever reach Curry's level of course, at either moving without the ball or shooting, but they wouldnt have to. The point would be to mainly to create more movement in the offence, and rely less on the drive and kick and mismatch hunting offence we use now. Plus, Scottie could be a much better passer than even draymond is, and any of Fred, Gary, Pascal and OG taking less off the dribble jump shots and more set shots can only be a good thing. The motion offence though, I think, would be great for the players we have.

      Defensively, well Scottie can probably do well at any position. But I am stubborn in my thinking that I would have him guard the perimeter if I were the coach. But it would depend on the opponent, not sure he would be the best option checking guards that are constantly running around screens in off ball actions. Fred and Gary are better suited to that.

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      • JawsGT wrote: View Post

        Yes of course, but there is little reason to think that fred and gary cant be great at moving off ball. Neither would ever reach Curry's level of course, at either moving without the ball or shooting, but they wouldnt have to. The point would be to mainly to create more movement in the offence, and rely less on the drive and kick and mismatch hunting offence we use now. Plus, Scottie could be a much better passer than even draymond is, and any of Fred, Gary, Pascal and OG taking less off the dribble jump shots and more set shots can only be a good thing. The motion offence though, I think, would be great for the players we have.

        Defensively, well Scottie can probably do well at any position. But I am stubborn in my thinking that I would have him guard the perimeter if I were the coach. But it would depend on the opponent, not sure he would be the best option checking guards that are constantly running around screens in off ball actions. Fred and Gary are better suited to that.
        I hope it happens where Scottie becomes great enough to be the #1 option offensively, but I think people are trying to push it too early. A lot of his points come from the mid range, post ups or broken plays. He isn't a good enough shooter yet where he can handle the ball consistently because teams will just go under the screen and cut him off.

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        • JawsGT wrote: View Post

          Yeah but who doesnt. I havent watched much of the road trip so I cant speak to recent games, but his energy level defensively has tapered off from what I've seen since the first 5-10 games. He might be just getting used to the grind and the system and the whistle, but he can be a great perimeter defender. Plus, it would negate most mis matches from switching the PnR, as he is big enough to guard just about anyone. I love Scottie guarding the perimeter, I think there is a load of potential with him swallowing up ball handlers.
          Look me pointing that out isn't saying he wont get better. I just think he currently relies on his athleticism. He WILL become more disciplined. I just think in terms of his skill set offensively he is an S tier for those of you who are familiar with Metal Gear Solid. His defence is closer to an A tier to A+. He will get to an S tier but its not there yet.


          Doesn't mean I am down on it but I think we should be focused on putting him on guys like Tatum or Embiid to see how he does rather than focused on him playing against point guards for several reasons.

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          • JawsGT wrote: View Post

            I think they need a more GSW style offence. Scottie would effectively play the draymond role on offence. On D, I'm a firm believer of scottie guarding the ball handler. Fred and Gary getting more set shots would be great for them I think. Og and Pascal setting off ball screens, spacing the floor and cutting with Barnes distributing seems like easy offence to me.


            watch what Curry does on offense before we can claim Raptors can run offense like GSW
            Last edited by MixxAOR; Fri Nov 26, 2021, 01:21 PM.
            Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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            • MixxAOR wrote: View Post



              watch what Curry does on offense because we can claim Raptors can run offense like GSW
              His gravity on the perimeter is the same as Shaq's gravity in the paint.

              We aren't playing anything similar until Scottie becomes a player who commands double teams.

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              • A.I wrote: View Post

                His gravity on the perimeter is the same as Shaq's gravity in the paint.

                We aren't playing anything similar until Scottie becomes a player who commands double teams.
                So early in development, it's hard to imagine what's the final vision Nurse, Masai and Bobby will look like. They were saying everybody can run the offense, but how that will look like is this a mystery.
                Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                • Blah blah blah

                  Let him learn now and quick !
                  You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

                  When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


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                  • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post
                    Blah blah blah

                    Let him learn now and quick !
                    is that your honest full and complete take?


                    He can learn quickly and not overload him. It is ok to wait more than 20 games to hand over the keys to the offense. Nearly every time a franchise has done that it ended up with them losing more and eventually losing their star. Especially in recent memory. Everytime it came along slowly (by slowly I mean more than 20 games) it ended up with long term chips.

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                    • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

                      is that your honest full and complete take?


                      He can learn quickly and not overload him. It is ok to wait more than 20 games to hand over the keys to the offense. Nearly every time a franchise has done that it ended up with them losing more and eventually losing their star. Especially in recent memory. Everytime it came along slowly (by slowly I mean more than 20 games) it ended up with long term chips.
                      He is averaging about 18 fga per 100 possessions

                      Still not Lebron like in his rookie year at 25 fga

                      haha
                      You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

                      When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


                      Comment


                      • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

                        He is averaging about 18 fga per 100 possessions

                        Still not Lebron like in his rookie year at 25 fga

                        haha
                        Correct. That was my point. I am confused what point you are trying to make. Please clarify because I want to make sure I understand you correctly I don't want to misrepresent your view point.



                        After you have done that my question not just for you but for everyone is this. Do you have a problem with Nurse's utilization of Barnes? I personally don't because his usage and role has grown game to game and week to week. They started him out in the dunker spot and he still does that but he also has expanded opportunities and ball handling opportunities. He is coming along nicely. That is just my opinion though.

                        I think development is not linear and typically not exponential either. Scottie is doing a great job but again still needs to prove he can shoot it right now consistently beyond 15 feet. The free throw numbers are good and important. I like what I see. Still don't feel the need to be ham-fisted about his development.
                        Last edited by TrueTorontoFan; Fri Nov 26, 2021, 02:43 PM.

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                        • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

                          He is averaging about 18 fga per 100 possessions

                          Still not Lebron like in his rookie year at 25 fga

                          haha
                          LeBron was maybe the most NBA ready rookie ever. I don't think it makes sense to put Scottie on the same development track, he will need more time.

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                          • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

                            Correct. That was my point. I am confused what point you are trying to make. Please clarify because I want to make sure I understand you correctly I don't want to misrepresent your view point.
                            Nurse is just doing just fine and giving him ample minutes. But still could do better…

                            Team is only averaging 21 apg which is bottom in the league…I seldom see a routine play that Scottie is featured in a Pick and Pop and Pick and Roll…he is automatic with his mid range (PnP) and he has the quickness and body to roll to the rim (PnR)

                            Van Vleet I am not sure if he is a point guard or an off….the in-between role is so confusing…running around in circles with double and triple hand off….throwing a Hail Mary or passing a timebomb will drive you crazy.

                            Also, It is up to the two main guys Siakam and Van Vleet to not freeze him out.




                            You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

                            When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


                            Comment


                            • 3 more possessions of a successful PnP or PnR to Scottie could do well in his development
                              You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

                              When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


                              Comment


                              • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

                                Nurse is just doing just fine and giving him ample minutes. But still could do better…

                                Team is only averaging 21 apg which is bottom in the league…I seldom see a routine play that Scottie is featured in a Pick and Pop and Pick and Roll…he is automatic with his mid range (PnP) and he has the quickness and body to roll to the rim (PnR)

                                Van Vleet I am not sure if he is a point guard or an off….the in-between role is so confusing…running around in circles with double and triple hand off….throwing a Hail Mary or passing a timebomb will drive you crazy.

                                Also, It is up to the two main guys Siakam and Van Vleet to not freeze him out.



                                My issue with nurse is he sometimes waits too long to put Barnes back into the game in the 4th quarter. We aren't a pick and roll team currently and we should use that more often so that is very true.

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