Everything Scottie Barnes

[The Claw Reborn]

Scottie Barnes was not even a starter on his college team and now people are looking to have him as a number 1 option in his rookie year. WTAF? Hell, even when he played at Montverde he average under 12 ppg.

He has lots of freedom in the offense and is not used any less than he should be. Give the guy time to figure the NBA out. He is not a finished product, let him add new things each year , his growth can be exponential.

Lol…in the first place, what is wrong if he evolved to be a more well rounded player at this fast of a pace … 24 games of his NBA career.

the 15-16 field goal attempts average is not too much to ask, no?

[DanH]

You keep moving the goal post in your argument just to prove your point stating that VanVleet is this ideal partner to Scottie Barnes. So typical of your most often strawman point of view but whatever lol.

Maybe Scottie’s averaged field goal percentage is higher is because he is out there collecting the volume of misses of VanVleet, hence also his higher rebound percentage per 36.

Hey man, spin this discussion to whatever your liking, but the bottomline…I just want VanVleet to find the sweet spots of Scottie so he can effectively make shots., 3 field goal attempts to his total is just fine. If he is really a point guard. But if he evolves as a more of an off guard which I think the stats don’t lie, then the follow up question, is he the right person to aid In the development of Scottie and maximize his strengths.

Considering Scottie only has 1.4 FGA per game as putbacks (on 2.9 OREB) at 60% success, and only averages 0.7 more offensive rebounds per 36 with Fred on the court... probably not? And... is it bad to put him in position to get easy buckets off putbacks?

You're the one that wants Scottie to take more shots, well guess what? He averages over 13 FGA/36 with Fred on the court, it's the minutes Fred sits that are dragging down his attempts (10 FGA per 36).

We've been over this. The Raptors clearly envision an offence where at the VERY least, Scottie is an equal participant from a creation standpoint (and as noted, I suspect the hope is long term he develops into the dominant cog of the offence). So Fred being an off ball savant is good in that regard. Fred being capable on the ball is also good, so Fred can slide more and more off the ball as Scottie is ready for more responsibility, without rushing Scottie into that role immediately. What is so hard about this?

I'm not shifting goalposts, I'm addressing the concerns and questions YOU raise! You said Fred looked off Scottie, I said he passed to him a bunch. you said those passes were not generating offence for Scottie, I quoted his FGA numbers off those passes. You questioned why Birch had a higher FG% off Fred passes than Scottie and I showed that Birch is the outlier and basically everyone on the team has a FG% somewhere in the 40's off Fred passes. You questioned whether Fred was an ideal partner to develop Scottie and I pointed out that he was! Like, if you don't want your questions answered and are going to accuse me of creating strawmen and moving goal posts when I try to answer them, maybe, like, stop asking them? Since you don't seem to care what the answers are anyway...

[The Claw Reborn]

Considering Scottie only has 1.4 FGA per game as putbacks (on 2.9 OREB) at 60% success, and only averages 0.7 more offensive rebounds per 36 with Fred on the court... probably not? And... is it bad to put him in position to get easy buckets off putbacks?

You're the one that wants Scottie to take more shots, well guess what? He averages over 13 FGA/36 with Fred on the court, it's the minutes Fred sits that are dragging down his attempts (10 FGA per 36).

We've been over this. The Raptors clearly envision an offence where at the VERY least, Scottie is an equal participant from a creation standpoint (and as noted, I suspect the hope is long term he develops into the dominant cog of the offence). So Fred being an off ball savant is good in that regard. Fred being capable on the ball is also good, so Fred can slide more and more off the ball as Scottie is ready for more responsibility, without rushing Scottie into that role immediately. What is so hard about this?

I'm not shifting goalposts, I'm addressing the concerns and questions YOU raise! You said Fred looked off Scottie, I said he passed to him a bunch. you said those passes were not generating offence for Scottie, I quoted his FGA numbers off those passes. You questioned why Birch had a higher FG% off Fred passes than Scottie and I showed that Birch is the outlier and basically everyone on the team has a FG% somewhere in the 40's off Fred passes. You questioned whether Fred was an ideal partner to develop Scottie and I pointed out that he was! Like, if you don't want your questions answered and are going to accuse me of creating strawmen and moving goal posts when I try to answer them, maybe, like, stop asking them? Since you don't seem to care what the answers are anyway...

I care much of your point of view DanH like a family, lol.

In all seriousness, I am fine with the Raptors having an equal participant from a creation standpoint but there is still disparity when VanVleet had 21 field goal attempts and Scottie only had 9….was that an outlier too? Birch was out of that game vs. the Pacers

Or against the Warriors, Van Vleet had 18 fga while Scottie had 11

Or vs. Utah…Van Vleet had 17, if Birch is effective, why only 8 attempts? Scottie had 11.

my point, if you want him to be this “stylistic Point Guard” then be one. Because a few people notice using the birds eye view that VanVLeet is ignoring Scottie.

[KeonClark]

You questioned whether Fred was an ideal partner to develop Scottie and I pointed out that he was! Like, if you don't want your questions answered and are going to accuse me of creating strawmen and moving goal posts when I try to answer them, maybe, like, stop asking them? Since you don't seem to care what the answers are anyway...

Some guys aren't interested in discussion, they're interested in getting FVV off the team. I would personally not go to so much work to reply to someone not discussing in good faith, but hey, that's me.

[The Claw Reborn]

[/B]

Some guys aren't interested in discussion, they're interested in getting FVV off the team. I would personally not to go so much work to reply to someone not discussing in good faith, but hey, that's me.

Canceling me out won’t work dude….just read my sig

[KeonClark]

Canceling me out won’t work dude….just read my sig

Yes I'm aware your signature is about me I can't usually see signatures but happened upon it recently. It's pretty cute.

[GOLDBLUM]

Yeah, how one cannot recognize Birch is the outlier is friggin hilarious -- and the eye-test correlates with the numbers. Pretty much the only time Birch is passed to on offence is when he's 3 feet away from the basket for an easy, easy bucket... and thank god he actually hits them most of the time, (thanks Khem!) unlike our other centre, who's still trying to find his touch.

Scottie is asked to do so much more on offence and is experimenting so much more and discovering his game. Of course his fg% is gonna be substantially lower. If you want to reduce Scottie to Khem's role, well, then you're the one stifling his development, not Fred. lol

(I love the stuff I get to learn while Dan is banging his head into the wall trying to explain it to others. Not the easiest way for that to transpire, but what can ya do.)

[The Claw Reborn]

This discussion was about field goal Attempts not percentage ….we don’t know yet how he would fair if that fga is increased to 15-16 attempts from 12 and how does that affect the entire offensive flow of the team.

[A.I]

Yeah, how one cannot recognize Birch is the outlier is friggin hilarious -- and the eye-test correlates with the numbers. Pretty much the only time Birch is passed to on offence is when he's 3 feet away from the basket for an easy, easy bucket... and thank god he actually hits them most of the time, (thanks Khem!) unlike our other centre, who's still trying to find his touch.

Scottie is asked to do so much more on offence and is experimenting so much more and discovering his game. Of course his fg% is gonna be substantially lower. If you want to reduce Scottie to Khem's role, well, then you're the one stifling his development, not Fred. lol

(I love the stuff I get to learn while Dan is banging his head into the wall trying to explain it to others. Not the easiest way for that to transpire, but what can ya do.)

When your job isn't to have a discussion but try to prove your own bias is correct, thats what happens.

But you know, DanH horde and all that...

[Limited Upside]

This discussion was about field goal Attempts not percentage ….we don’t know yet how he would fair if that fga is increased to 15-16 attempts from 12 and how does that affect the entire offensive flow of the team.

We don't know for sure how Scottie would fare with more FGA, but we can guess how the team as a whole would do with a rookie taking 1/4 of the shots on the team every night.

[KeonClark]

We don't know for sure how Scottie would fare with more FGA, but we can guess how the team as a whole would do with a rookie taking 1/4 of the shots on the team every night.

Sounds like that scenario has...












Limited Upside.

[golden]

lol. Scottie is just developing into a shooter and now we want him taking 20 FGA a game? And he's never been a true PG before (like Dalano) and now people want him to run the point? We all love Scottie, but c'mon... he's gotta learn to walk before he runs. His development is coming along just fine. Stay the course.

[The Claw Reborn]

We don't know for sure how Scottie would fare with more FGA, but we can guess how the team as a whole would do with a rookie taking 1/4 of the shots on the team every night.

This side of the rail (mostly I am by myself lol)….Wins is not the priority this season but more on experimenting how this no.4 draft pick can do with volume of shots and the opportunity to find his sweet spots on the court…I thought the PnR and PnP plays could be more enhanced with him as the primary recipient of the pass or him as the roll guy with his high level court awareness can find guys from the three point line or those cutters.

15-16 field goal attempts is just fair for him…not saying 20 attempts (Lebron like) which VanVleet in one game thought he can be lol

Don’t mind me vs. horde and the bias towards how great VanVleet is lol.

[slaw]

Not to rain on anyone's parade but arguing about how many FGAs per game a guy is getting is losing the plot. If there are any issues with Barnes on the offensive they are more a result of the Raptors offense than touches, shots, etc. Personally, I'd like to see more Barnes in screen and roll as the roll man (he is really hard to handle when he's moving downhill) and give him a few looks as the ballhandler in screen and roll (and not the perfunctory ones where no one moves but with a guy rolling hard to the rim). A few more of those possessions and a few less of the constant isos and dribble hand offs might prove fruitful and I don't care if he get 0 more shots out of it but my guess is that the team would get some good possessions.

But there is zero need to force feed him shots for the sake of getting him more shots. That's not good basketball and it isn't going to have any positive benefits.

[A.I]

lol. Scottie is just developing into a shooter and now we want him taking 20 FGA a game? And he's never been a true PG before (like Dalano) and now people want him to run the point? We all love Scottie, but c'mon... he's gotta learn to walk before he runs. His development is coming along just fine. Stay the course.

Its actually ridiculous. You wanna know how many rookies attempted 20 field goals per game in NBA history? 15. That includes guys like Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Iverson. Maybe you can include Scottie offensively in other ways but force feeding him 20 shots isn't smart.