Everything Scottie Barnes

[Primer]

Ha, sorry but the scoring champ ALWAYS makes the all star game. AI would be an every year all star.

[golden]

Ha, sorry but the scoring champ ALWAYS makes the all star game. AI would be an every year all star.

Nah, sorry, but no coach today would allow AI to carry that usage and be that inefficient. He’d be coming off the bench as a 6th man, microwave scorer.

[chris]

Nah, sorry, but no coach today would allow AI to carry that usage and be that inefficient. He’d be coming off the bench as a 6th man, microwave scorer.

i guess i don't understand the assumption that he'd have the same efficiency today. AI played a completely different sport, one in which the raptors averaged 85 points a game for an entire season.

it was a bad product and the rules changed to favor the offense. it's consequently never been easier to score and efficiency records are falling left and right (three of the four highest PER's have occurred in the last three years, and the two highest offensive ratings ever happened this past season. if you want to put a high usage qualifier on that, jokic had the best offensive rating for a high usage player last year).

it's not a big leap to think AI's efficiency would also improve in this era

[DanH]

League average ORTG back in AI's prime was around 100. The golden rule would have been set at different thresholds back then.

[chris]

put another way, could john elway make a pro bowl today or would he ride the pine behind jimmy G or jared goff or whoever because of his 56% completion percentage and sub-80 passer rating?

or is it maybe a bit of a dumb question because they played in different eras under both different rules and differing offensive philosophies?

[golden]

League average ORTG back in AI's prime was around 100. The golden rule would have been set at different thresholds back then.

I’m getting my ORTG data from BBRef and league average was never as low as 100 during AI’s prime. Just scanning, I’m pretty sure Iverson was mostly below or at best league average in all but a few seasons. So he was hurting his team most of the time.

But to the other point made by chris, none of the top scorers of that era had ORTGs as low as AI, except maybe Stackhouse. And yet somebody brought up him being potentially generational? That’s a joke. He wasn’t even an elite scorer relative to his peers, even after adjusting for that era. He just took a lot of shots.

[DanH]

I’m getting my ORTG data from BBRef and league average was never as low as 100 during AI’s prime. Just scanning, I’m pretty sure Iverson was mostly below or at best league average in all but a few seasons. So he was hurting his team most of the time.

But to the other point made by chris, none of the top scorers of that era had ORTGs as low as AI, except maybe Stackhouse. And yet somebody brought up him being potentially generational? That’s a joke. He wasn’t even an elite scorer relative to his peers, even after adjusting for that era. He just took a lot of shots.

He had no one else (offensively) on those teams. Managing roughly league average offence with his teammates and usage is incredible.

Like Tim Freaking Duncan averaged an ORTG of like 109 in those early years.

League average was 103 the year he won MVP.

There was just no real scoring then. Yeah, you had some crazy efficient shooters, but for the most part the league was very low scoring.
??????

[A.I]

I’m getting my ORTG data from BBRef and league average was never as low as 100 during AI’s prime. Just scanning, I’m pretty sure Iverson was mostly below or at best league average in all but a few seasons. So he was hurting his team most of the time.

But to the other point made by chris, none of the top scorers of that era had ORTGs as low as AI, except maybe Stackhouse. And yet somebody brought up him being potentially generational? That’s a joke. He wasn’t even an elite scorer relative to his peers, even after adjusting for that era. He just took a lot of shots.

I mean he basically was the team. He led them to the Finals. That team had a 34 year old Mutombo, Eric Snow, Tyrone Hill, Aaron McKie, it doesn't scream Finals team. He won a MVP as well, so clearly others recognized how great he was on that Sixers team.

I was also talking about his influence rather than his on court production. Whether you disliked the way he played (I agree on everything when it comes to his lack of efficiency), he is one the most influential players in NBA history, thats why I said arguably generational.

[chris]

But to the other point made by chris, none of the top scorers of that era had ORTGs as low as AI, except maybe Stackhouse. And yet somebody brought up him being potentially generational? That’s a joke. He wasn’t even an elite scorer relative to his peers, even after adjusting for that era. He just took a lot of shots.

i would never use any definition of the word generational to describe AI, but i also think it's disingenuous to say he'd be coming off the bench today or that his success was merely a product of voluminous shooting, or (especially) that he was actively hurting his team. look at his teammates, as others have pointed out. (and i say this as probably the person who has beat the drum loudest on this board over the years of how limiting a ball dominant, high useage, 'heliocentric' style team is. pretty much every team played an iso-heavy style back then save the lakers and kings).

i think morant has borrowed from AI's game more than anyone and i think that's pretty much what you could expect AI to look like in 2022, with fewer explosive dunks

[golden]

I mean he basically was the team. He led them to the Finals. That team had a 34 year old Mutombo, Eric Snow, Tyrone Hill, Aaron McKie, it doesn't scream Finals team. He won a MVP as well, so clearly others recognized how great he was on that Sixers team.

I was also talking about his influence rather than his on court production. Whether you disliked the way he played (I agree on everything when it comes to his lack of efficiency), he is one the most influential players in NBA history, thats why I said arguably generational.

That team screams "elite defense", which is the reason why they could withstand AI's average to below-average efficiency during the Larry Brown era and still win close games. Iverson was mostly a plus-defender, which might be the best argument for making him an all-star, i.e., his 2-way play.

[KeonClark]

Scottie in Orlando wouldn't have won ROTY

But he would have still been all rookie. Y'all giving too much credit to Nurse and the "system" on this one. Masai just picked the better player. It was clear from the jump, like workouts and summer league, Scottie was one of the best players out the draft and Suggs...wasn't. The mock drafters with their college games and youtube videos didn't see it.

[Puffer]

put another way, could john elway make a pro bowl today or would he ride the pine behind jimmy G or jared goff or whoever because of his 56% completion percentage and sub-80 passer rating?

or is it maybe a bit of a dumb question because they played in different eras under both different rules and differing offensive philosophies?

And different training regimens, with less knowledgeable trainers, different eating habits, different offseason routines etc.

[golden]

And different training regimens, with less knowledgeable trainers, different eating habits, different offseason routines etc.

Are you trying to make the argument that Iverson would be better today because of..... practice?

[TrueTorontoFan]

Are you trying to make the argument that Iverson would be better today because of..... practice?

nah we talking about the game.

[planetmars]