Everything Scottie Barnes

[DanH]

"Problem" is your word and not mine. For me I think the offence is not dynamic enough without two guards on the floor and the defence isn't good enough without Precious or another C out there.

The sample being this season with our offence being one of the worst in the league.

Right, the current system is not working (though also not working as badly as the record would imply). Of course, we are very rarely running lineups with those three players running at the 2, 3 and 4 spots. It's that specific identification of what is not working that I have the issue with. Like you throw out stuff like how you think the offence needs two guards, and the defence needs a C, but no evidence of either statement.

[BrydenB]

Right, the current system is not working (though also not working as badly as the record would imply). Of course, we are very rarely running lineups with those three players running at the 2, 3 and 4 spots. It's that specific identification of what is not working that I have the issue with. Like you throw out stuff like how you think the offence needs two guards, and the defence needs a C, but no evidence of either statement.

Do you honestly think Scottie, Pascal and OG can all thrive together? They seem to want to occupy similar space, while Scottie and Pascal both want the ball. Fred is supposed to be a good off ball shooter who theoretically pairs well with those 3. Even if you brought in some sort of magical, perfectly fitting C, do you really believe those 3 can play to their peaks. It just isn't working.

[planetmars]

Do you honestly think Scottie, Pascal and OG can all thrive together? They seem to want to occupy similar space, while Scottie and Pascal both want the ball. Fred is supposed to be a good off ball shooter who theoretically pairs well with those 3. Even if you brought in some sort of magical, perfectly fitting C, do you really believe those 3 can play to their peaks. It just isn't working.

The 3 have a +2.3 net rating together in over 500 minutes together. Not super great, but it's not a complete bust/failure. I think OG's struggles at the 3pt line, and Scottie not being assertive enough until the second half of most games is the bigger issue then the 3 not gelling properly.

If I had to move one, I'd vote for OG. He's a good player, but he's not helping this team enough. We need better shooting/scoring which he doesn't really provide. His defense is great but we need more of a rim protector than a 1-1 perimeter defender. The ball moves too quick these days. Having a dominant 1-1 defender is just not as valuable as it used to be.

[slaw]

Do you honestly think Scottie, Pascal and OG can all thrive together? They seem to want to occupy similar space, while Scottie and Pascal both want the ball. Fred is supposed to be a good off ball shooter who theoretically pairs well with those 3. Even if you brought in some sort of magical, perfectly fitting C, do you really believe those 3 can play to their peaks. It just isn't working.

Long term my question is what kind of players are you adding to that trio to make it a contender? There aren't many centers (any?) out there that offer the combination of shooting and defense required nor are you likely to find some massive upgrade over FVV/Trent (whom we are talking about getting $25 million plus in FA).

My hesitation in trading any of the three is that the offense and defense are so broken that I'd like to see what could be accomplished with some strategic and tactical changes before doing something regrettable.

[G__Deane]

The 3 have a +2.3 net rating together in over 500 minutes together. Not super great, but it's not a complete bust/failure. I think OG's struggles at the 3pt line, and Scottie not being assertive enough until the second half of most games is the bigger issue then the 3 not gelling properly.

If I had to move one, I'd vote for OG. He's a good player, but he's not helping this team enough. We need better shooting/scoring which he doesn't really provide. His defense is great but we need more of a rim protector than a 1-1 perimeter defender. The ball moves too quick these days. Having a dominant 1-1 defender is just not as valuable as it used to be.

That's an interestng point since OG is suposed to be super sought after player with a huge potential return.
I still think Masai will build off Pascal, Fred, OG, Scotty and Achiuwa (trading Gary)
or small chance of swapping out Fred for GTJr. which I think is the better more impactful move.
In both events, hanging onto OG ....

[Bonus Jonas]

Right, the current system is not working (though also not working as badly as the record would imply). Of course, we are very rarely running lineups with those three players running at the 2, 3 and 4 spots. It's that specific identification of what is not working that I have the issue with. Like you throw out stuff like how you think the offence needs two guards, and the defence needs a C, but no evidence of either statement.

Eye test is a thing. I do think we’d play a lot better with lineups with both Pascal/Scottie running point and 2 shooters and a big.

Problem is the roster doesn’t really have more than 2 consistent shooters that can also defend in order to play 48 minutes consistently and win.

Filling out 96 minutes with only OG is a literal impossibility. FVV/GTJ/Flynn can’t play defence.

[Kagemusha]

Filling out 96 minutes with only OG is a literal impossibility. FVV/GTJ/Flynn can’t play defence.

Can't play Nick's defence.

[Dr Hannibal Lecter]

Mehhh...I will judge Scottie when most of this roster is blown up and him being the focal point of the offense...right now..his got 4 guys who want the ball more than him, his just doing what the coach is asking of him, playing the 5..which is stupid..that's on management and Nick Nurse. Everybody relax, when u have the joker and two face running the asylum u get this kind of basketball..be patient.

[Bonus Jonas]

The 3 have a +2.3 net rating together in over 500 minutes together. Not super great, but it's not a complete bust/failure. I think OG's struggles at the 3pt line, and Scottie not being assertive enough until the second half of most games is the bigger issue then the 3 not gelling properly.

If I had to move one, I'd vote for OG. He's a good player, but he's not helping this team enough. We need better shooting/scoring which he doesn't really provide. His defense is great but we need more of a rim protector than a 1-1 perimeter defender. The ball moves too quick these days. Having a dominant 1-1 defender is just not as valuable as it used to be.

He’s consistently shown he can shoot the 3 over the course of his career. He can defend. Why in the world would we trade OG…

He’s also getting you 18 points a night.

[JawsGT]

Do you honestly think Scottie, Pascal and OG can all thrive together? They seem to want to occupy similar space, while Scottie and Pascal both want the ball. Fred is supposed to be a good off ball shooter who theoretically pairs well with those 3. Even if you brought in some sort of magical, perfectly fitting C, do you really believe those 3 can play to their peaks. It just isn't working.

I do, but, yes, none of those guys should be playing the C. The problem I think, is there is no good pnr pairing in that lineup, and Fred isn't off ball enough. The offence is too often stagnant. Of course, alot of that can be alleviated with better shooting, which would open up driving and passing lanes. But that's not happening and we are relying primarily on mismatch hunting and iso. OG can thrive off ball, he doesn't need alot of touches to be effective. Pascal is the go to. Barnes runs the show. One of Fred or Gary should be traded or moved to the bench. That's the move I think if they are gonna stick with this roster.

[golden]

I do, but, yes, none of those guys should be playing the C. The problem I think, is there is no good pnr pairing in that lineup, and Fred isn't off ball enough. The offence is too often stagnant. Of course, alot of that can be alleviated with better shooting, which would open up driving and passing lanes. But that's not happening and we are relying primarily on mismatch hunting and iso. OG can thrive off ball, he doesn't need alot of touches to be effective. Pascal is the go to. Barnes runs the show. One of Fred or Gary should be traded or moved to the bench. That's the move I think if they are gonna stick with this roster.

It could be time to put Precious in the starting lineup and move Gary back to the bench. That's the vision, right?

[planetmars]

He’s consistently shown he can shoot the 3 over the course of his career. He can defend. Why in the world would we trade OG…

He’s also getting you 18 points a night.

If OG can get back to being a 40% 3pt shooter than he's exactly what we need. He's not the floor spacer he used to be unfortunately. He can make a shot, but 34-35% is league average. He needs to be an elite shooter again. The guy that hit that bucket against the Celtics with 0.5 seconds left.

It was ultimately about the trio of OG, Pascal and Scottie and if they can play together. I think it's possible, and easier if OG becomes a better shooter again.

But if I had to trade one of them, then OG would be the guy I would move. I'd prefer not to trade any of them. But gun to my head, OG is first.

[iblastoff]

when a team is losing, everyone thinks nobody can play with each other. everyone laughed and complained about tatum + brown and how they so obviously can't play together during their tumultuous period. same tired shit arguments on the raptors.

there is no reason why og + siakam + barnes can't play for the same team lol. people whining about how they 'take up each others space' lol please. while each of them definitely have their preference of play (as scottie talked about in post-game blazers) you WANT all of them to have similar skills. thats the whole point of vision 6'9. imagine if this team somehow had 5 siakam-like guys?

i think everyone clamoring for a center and thinking that will magically change things is delusional.

and people need to relax with OG's shooting. last year OG shot 35% prior to all-star and then 46% after. raptors are also entering a much easier stretch of games to end the season. we'll see where his shootings at then.

[JawsGT]

It could be time to put Precious in the starting lineup and move Gary back to the bench. That's the vision, right?

Precious doesn't have his legs yet, not sure if he could give 25 min. That doesn't mean he can't start of course. But yes, that is my vision, although Fred could move to the bench, doesn't really matter which to me. I'm kinda torn actually, but Fred isn't much good if he isn't making 3s and playing strong help defence. Gary's been good lately with predominantly bench units, and can get a shot off anytime, anywhere, which may be more useful with the bench.

[The Great One]

Trading OG and PS makes no sense though. Scottie is not a great defender at the 3 either, so nice to be able to hide him behind those guys.

I agree they should absolutely not be playing any of them at C. But the pieces to remove from the lineup are one of Fred or Gary, not Pascal or OG.

Not sure about FVV but Trent is as good as gone. As for Scottie, OG and Pascal, if they keep all three, how are they going to do it? can OG play the 2? OG at the 2, Barnes at the 3, Siakam at the 4? because they can't keep playing Scottie against other teams C.