Everything Scottie Barnes

[LJ2]

Scottie averaged 18p/9r/2a his first 7 games of his career. That’s the talent he came into the league with, which has nothing to do with Nurse. He was still averaging 16/8/3 over his first 27 games, for a bigger sample size including when Pascal came back He’s averaging 15/7/5 in his sophomore year, so he’s actually gotten worse under Nurse at everything except playmaking. This is the year everybody expected a jump. That’s not even the worst part of the lack of development. Scottie came into the league compared to Draymond, and now he’s considered an average to poor defender. That’s a horrific failure of player development.

He was ROY was he not? I'd say Nurse played a role in that and it wasn't all just Scottie's natural talent. He didn't come into the league as a scorer but was able to surprise. Regardless I don't think Nurse alone is responsible for Scotties development or failures. NN has eluded to assistants being largely responsible for skill development. I think The head coach is more responsible for putting the team in a place to succeed and Nurse has failed them this season. Gotta see what they can pull off in the post season and the season to come.

[Maury]

Really struggling to see how he and pascal fit together I’m the long term.

[The Claw Reborn]

So stupid for Masai to not trade VanVleet

Scottie’s development once again stunted because VanVleet has to be the primary guy.

Dowtin/ Banton the secondary collateral damage because Masai is fooling himself that maybe just maybe, VanVleet can elevated this team by adding Poeltl and Will Barton.

Just backward thinking

[MixxAOR]

[chris]

Really struggling to see how he and pascal fit together I’m the long term.

welcome aboard

[Kagemusha]

Masai better not waste this kid

[slaw]

Really struggling to see how he and pascal fit together I’m the long term.

Two things. First, I'd like to see them with a new head coach who employs some different structures, strategies and tactics. Second, I'd like to see some better role definition and deployment of personnel, which likely means some new personnel, and without the focus being on everyone's next contract.

If that doesn't work then you can break them up but not sold on moving either one right now given there are lots of issues out of their individual control.

[DanH]

On the season, when Pascal and Scottie share the floor, they have a +2.2 net rating, the equivalent of a 47 win team. That's a better net rating than either have individually, so the team isn't struggling more in their shared minutes than when they are apart. And that's being dragged down by the absolutely insane lineups Nick has been using of late where he throws the pair out in bench groups with Gary as the only shooter, which is just a criminal misuse of the roster. There's no reason to believe they can't be on the same very successful team together.

[chris]

On the season, when Pascal and Scottie share the floor, they have a +2.2 net rating, the equivalent of a 47 win team. That's a better net rating than either have individually, so the team isn't struggling more in their shared minutes than when they are apart. And that's being dragged down by the absolutely insane lineups Nick has been using of late where he throws the pair out in bench groups with Gary as the only shooter, which is just a criminal misuse of the roster. There's no reason to believe they can't be on the same very successful team together.

to me it's less about whether a lineup featuring both scottie and pascal can achieve moderate success and more about maxing out scottie's potential, which i think is critical to this franchise's long term outlook.

scottie needs more touches to reach his potential, and spends too much time in an off-ball role on the perimeter for my liking. someone has to go for him to get the touches he needs to become a better player. that could be fred or gary or OG but all those guys fit around him better than pascal i think, particularly if poeltl is resigned because he's another guy who can't shoot.

i'd rather attempt to build the team around a fully realized version of scottie plus players we already have and ones we could get for trading pascal that compliment his game, than to build the team around pascal as the number one option and a half-realized version of scottie in a role that doesn't suit him.

it's a gamble on scottie's potential but we know what the latter looks like already and it looks like a treadmill. a very expensive treadmill.

[Maury]

I'm not in favour of designing the team around one player to maximize their stats, but it's obvious to me that since the Poeltl trade Scottie has been pushed back to the perimeter and it's hurt him significantly. His FG percentage is in the shitter, and it's been pretty poor all season which is such a step back from last year. He's not playing the same anymore, but I think he's trying to fit in too much. The reality is that Scottie needs to be in the paint, midrange and in. The occasional catch-and-shoot three is more than welcome, but maximizing Scottie's involvement is essential in bringing out the best in everyone else. I'm just not sure Pascal taking his 18 shots a game and all of his isos and poor decision-making are making the rest of the team better. Scottie could easily average 20 8 and 8 if you just put him at the 4 and fill the rest of the team out with shooters. Poeltl fits, I think because Scottie and Poeltl have developed a strong ability to make big to big passes and Scottie needs someone to set screens for him/release valve to make dump-offs when he gets in the paint. This is on top of the fact that you don't want Scottie guarding centers. If you put Gary in for Pascal in the starting lineup we might see a really strong lineup that has a balanced offensive attack and better-defined roles. Fred fits in that world until you find a suitable long-term replacement, as Scottie isn't the guy that should be playing full-time point guard. He's Lamar Odom but has a far higher potential as an offensive finisher. I'm sure Dan has lineup stats that suggest otherwise, but I'm certain that this group would make a heck of a lot more sense. Everyone moves up a rung on offence and you solve a lot of the ego issues on the team because Scottie will get shots for OG and Gary, and can actually create offence at the end of games whereas Pascal really struggles, especially recently.

For example, if you can get Simons and Sharpe and a couple picks (not sure what Portland's pick situations are like after this year), then you might have to think about doing that. Pascal is a great player, he helped us win a chip, but we aren't going anywhere with him as our 1A. Scottie at least has the potential to elevate our ceiling. He also has relationships with guys his age, which could be huge in a couple of years when guys are free agents or asking for trades. We want this team to be stable and successful for when these opportunities come up so that Scottie isn't the one asking out or leaving.

[LJ2]

It's asking a lot of Scottie to move him into Pascal's spot when Scottie is the type of player that looks to pass and create and Pascal is the type that looks for his own shot first. Pascal hunts his own shots to a fault at times. Scottie doesn't play with that type of aggression on offense. Potentially you end up with a team that looks like the 2019 squad in the Philly series where Gasol, Lowry et all are playing hot potato with the ball because they're all scared to take a shot. Except there is no Kawhi to bail guys out.

It just comes down to math and my bet would be that Fred is the one that gets moved. The math being that Raps are still crushing teams on possessions per game but are shooting too low of a percentage to win games. Of all the big minute guys Fred has by far the lowest FG percentage so moving him for a more efficient player will help raise the teams overall FG%. I know I'm over simplifying it but that's sort of all there is to it isn't it? Raise the teams FG% and all those extra possessions actually start to mean something.

[JawsGT]

Good arguments from all sides, but I am perhaps overly concerned about how much this team is willing to pay a guy that shoots 39% on high volume. That's where his 3pt% needs to be, not his fg%. I'm hoping this is just a down season for Fred if we retain him.

[Primer]

It's asking a lot of Scottie to move him into Pascal's spot when Scottie is the type of player that looks to pass and create and Pascal is the type that looks for his own shot first. Pascal hunts his own shots to a fault at times. Scottie doesn't play with that type of aggression on offense. Potentially you end up with a team that looks like the 2019 squad in the Philly series where Gasol, Lowry et all are playing hot potato with the ball because they're all scared to take a shot. Except there is no Kawhi to bail guys out.

It just comes down to math and my bet would be that Fred is the one that gets moved. The math being that Raps are still crushing teams on possessions per game but are shooting too low of a percentage to win games. Of all the big minute guys Fred has by far the lowest FG percentage so moving him for a more efficient player will help raise the teams overall FG%. I know I'm over simplifying it but that's sort of all there is to it isn't it? Raise the teams FG% and all those extra possessions actually start to mean something.

This is simple but true.

We are dominating the possession battle but our FG% sucks and VanVleet is the biggest culprit by far with 16.1 shots per game and 39% FG.

Everyone on the team that takes 5 shots or more per game is 43.6% (Gary) or better.

Fred's backups in Flynn and Banton also have terrible FG% so I get why we just keep rolling with Fred this season, but I see no reason to continue with Fred next season. A higher FG% PG who takes less shots is just what this team needs and Fred ain't that guy.

I'm very much not on the Scottie and Pascal can't work together train. I think we replace Fred with someone like I describe above and all for a sudden they'll fit a lot better together. Put Scottie at PF and let him play inside and Pascal is our SF.

[LJ2]

Good arguments from all sides, but I am perhaps overly concerned about how much this team is willing to pay a guy that shoots 39% on high volume. That's where his 3pt% needs to be, not his fg%. I'm hoping this is just a down season for Fred if we retain him.

Even in a normal year Fred tops out at maybe 41% from the feild. He shouldn't really be a high volume shooter from inside 3pt territory, but that's what he's been asked to do.

[planetmars]

Fred is first (tied with OG) in the league in deflections, and 10th in steals. He has a 6.9:1.9 assist to turnover (meaning he doesn't give the ball up). He's helping us gain possessions. So who's replacing him that can help do that too?