Everything Precious Achiuwa

[G__Deane]

Obviously he has his reasons. They might be good ones. They might be bad ones. The very best NBA coaches still do things wrong sometimes - quite possibly even intentionally and for good reason. All I can comment on is on-court success, which is only one of many factors I'm sure Nick et al are considering. And that's why I'm not exactly out for Nick's head here, I'm rarely saying Nick is making a mistake, just that I wish they would start the right players instead of the wrong ones because all I get to experience is the on-court product.

I would suggest that it appears that you are making decisions based on all the data you have access to and Nick/Masai/Bobby and the very large coaching staff have a lot more data to access (his reasons). Cheers.

[DanH]

I asked in the other thread and as you've pointed out, it's not a small sample size.
So why do you think a top 5 professional NBA Coach with a top NBA Management team in Bobby and Masai (not to mention 10 other Coaches on his staff) hasn't come to the conclusion that you think is so obvious?

Are they just stubborn? Oblivious? Incompetant?
Or do they know more than most forum posters?
Are there any other examples or wilful dereliction of duty?

I'm actually curious.

Obviously he has his reasons. They might be good ones. They might be bad ones. The very best NBA coaches still do things wrong sometimes - quite possibly even intentionally and for good reason. All I can comment on is on-court success, which is only one of many factors I'm sure Nick et al are considering. And that's why I'm not exactly out for Nick's head here, I'm rarely saying Nick is making a mistake, just that I wish they would start the right players instead of the wrong ones because all I get to experience is the on-court product.

[G__Deane]

I mean, unless those lineups end up dramatically more successful than they have been, Nick should arrive at the conclusion to make a switch eventually. So it's not really failure from Trent or anyone else that would drive that, just no giant leaps of dramatic success. My order of priorities: 1) giant leaps of dramatic success for my favourite team, and then 2) my favourite team realizing they have better options to create their own success without needing to rely on said giant leaps that are so rare.

Gary had a great shooting performance and played very much the way I want him to play, and I wanted to point that out because it was great! It didn't change the fact that the starters got CAVED which I didn't even bother to bring up, nor that he is perfectly capable of having performances like that off the bench, which would be far more helpful to the team than him having performances like that and still playing in lineups that lose their minutes.

I asked in the other thread and as you've pointed out, it's not a small sample size.
So why do you think a top 5 professional NBA Coach with a top NBA Management team in Bobby and Masai (not to mention 10 other Coaches on his staff) hasn't come to the conclusion that you think is so obvious?

Are they just stubborn? Oblivious? Incompetant?
Or do they know more than most forum posters?
Are there any other examples or wilful dereliction of duty?

I'm actually curious.

[The Claw Reborn]

I mean, unless those lineups end up dramatically more successful than they have been, Nick should arrive at the conclusion to make a switch eventually. So it's not really failure from Trent or anyone else that would drive that, just no giant leaps of dramatic success. My order of priorities: 1) giant leaps of dramatic success for my favourite team, and then 2) my favourite team realizing they have better options to create their own success without needing to rely on said giant leaps that are so rare.

Gary had a great shooting performance and played very much the way I want him to play, and I wanted to point that out because it was great! It didn't change the fact that the starters got CAVED which I didn't even bother to bring up, nor that he is perfectly capable of having performances like that off the bench, which would be far more helpful to the team than him having performances like that and still playing in lineups that lose their minutes.

Holy Cow…I have no doubt that you think of yourself having basketball knowledge that is above the rest, even implying that Nick Nurse should reconsider lol. But for once, try to bring down yourself to the level of the masses so you can see what is going on in reality.

This is you: the only way theory will work is for the Raptors to lose a significant number of games PRIMARILY CAUSED by Gary Trent failure to fit with the rest of the starters.

This is Nick Nurse: that is when I will change course

Simplistic terms

[DanH]

Let’s be honest here…Nick Nurse is not changing his starting rotation soon. The only way you validate your stance is for Trent to fail and basically shoving into this coach throat that you were so right all along. We can move on because you are not fooling me with some of your goodie two shoes performance in the game thread about Trent. He had a great game and on to the next one, waiting for him to crash land so you can once again reinsert your campaign that he has to be coming off the bench and Precious to start.

I mean, unless those lineups end up dramatically more successful than they have been, Nick should arrive at the conclusion to make a switch eventually. So it's not really failure from Trent or anyone else that would drive that, just no giant leaps of dramatic success. My order of priorities: 1) giant leaps of dramatic success for my favourite team, and then 2) my favourite team realizing they have better options to create their own success without needing to rely on said giant leaps that are so rare.

Gary had a great shooting performance and played very much the way I want him to play, and I wanted to point that out because it was great! It didn't change the fact that the starters got CAVED which I didn't even bother to bring up, nor that he is perfectly capable of having performances like that off the bench, which would be far more helpful to the team than him having performances like that and still playing in lineups that lose their minutes.

[The Claw Reborn]

I am rooting for Trent to exceed expectations. I root for the team, I want them to win more, not sure what's confusing about that.

But these are my expectations. It also has nothing to do with him failing or succeeding, it has to do with his fit with that unit as a starting group, which is just not very good (great as a closing look though). If they find a way to overcome that, awesome. I just don't expect it to happen.

Let’s be honest here…Nick Nurse is not changing his starting rotation soon. The only way you validate your stance is for Trent to fail and basically shoving into this coach throat that you were so right all along. We can move on because you are not fooling me with some of your goodie two shoes performance in the game thread about Trent. He had a great game and on to the next one, waiting for him to crash land so you can once again reinsert your campaign that he has to be coming off the bench and Precious to start.

[DanH]

So in the most simplest terms…you are basically rooting for Trent to fail…in the end would validate you and your most loyal cult follower theory. LOL.

let’s move on

I am rooting for Trent to exceed expectations. I root for the team, I want them to win more, not sure what's confusing about that.

But these are my expectations. It also has nothing to do with him failing or succeeding, it has to do with his fit with that unit as a starting group, which is just not very good (great as a closing look though). If they find a way to overcome that, awesome. I just don't expect it to happen.

[Puffer]

Hopefully a big part of the future of this team! I’m excited to see what this guy can do for us as a mobile defender with a developing offensive game. Can he work out a functional 3 point shot? Does he start for us?

Just wanted to give Maury his due. You were right to be excited Maury. The only question left is "Does he start for us?" Check in with Dan H. :-)

[Kagemusha]

Gary most certainly is on board with defence, but he's just not going to give you what the other starters give you. Going to be interesting to see if the Raps commit to Trent or not.

There's always be a few outlier, but as long as Gary compensates for his shortcomings on the other end of the floor , then he should be fine.
it would be extremely hard for a team to get all the pieces that they wanted.

[The Claw Reborn]

I wanted to bring it up because my qualitative observations of the lineup re: player fit and role and play style were carried out by the numbers for the entirety of last season and nothing has happened yet this season to contradict that, and wanted to establish a baseline to track the trend against as the sample builds, because I am confident based on said qualitative observations that the sample will hold up with time.

So in the most simplest terms…you are basically rooting for Trent to fail…in the end would validate you and your most loyal cult follower theory. LOL.

let’s move on

[golden]

I wanted to bring it up because my qualitative observations of the lineup re: player fit and role and play style were carried out by the numbers for the entirety of last season and nothing has happened yet this season to contradict that, and wanted to establish a baseline to track the trend against as the sample builds, because I am confident based on said qualitative observations that the sample will hold up with time.

You could be seeing the "Banton effect". Banton is destroying everybody's net rating, except Fred and Scottie, who are PGs can take the ball out of his hands and make better decisions. Banton is even killing Pascal's net rating.

Or.... it's just another episode of: Small Sample Size Theatre.

[DanH]

Why bring it up then? Oh ok, you want to do your unwarranted due diligence this early of the season…. Game no.4 LOL

I wanted to bring it up because my qualitative observations of the lineup re: player fit and role and play style were carried out by the numbers for the entirety of last season and nothing has happened yet this season to contradict that, and wanted to establish a baseline to track the trend against as the sample builds, because I am confident based on said qualitative observations that the sample will hold up with time.

[LJ2]

Yikes, Gary got to get on board with defence, pretty much confirms what I've been noticing. Hopefully that trend changes.

Gary most certainly is on board with defence, but he's just not going to give you what the other starters give you. Going to be interesting to see if the Raps commit to Trent or not.

[big boi]

Sort of makes sense that both Scottie and Precious would struggle playing together since they are both non-shooters and kind of occupy the same space in the paint.

Didn't Precious play quite poorly both full games he played with Scottie? Then going on to play well the game Scottie got injured and the game after? So isn't the comparison with Scottie a particularly small sample?

[JawsGT]

Feeling annoying this morning so going to put some super small sample early returns from this season here.

Precious' on-court net rating with each player (listed in order of minutes played):
Fred +23
Gary +10
Pascal +17
OG +29
Koloko -19
Banton -42
Barnes -7
Flynn -15
Boucher +4
Thad -42
Khem -48

We should stop playing Precious at PF, it seems. Generally has had a lot of struggle with the bench but killed it with the various starters, Barnes excepted (who plays in most of those bench groups). Shocking.

Will be interesting to watch to see if that trend continues.

Another trend related to the discussion:

On-off court differential net rating by player, in order of minutes played:
Fred +42
Gary -17
Pascal +8
OG +40
Precious +14
Barnes +13
Koloko -18
Banton -44
Thad -53
Flynn -17
Boucher +4
Khem +25
Juancho -56

Good news is in his one game Boucher seemed to stabilize the bench a bit. One of those top 6 guys in minutes doesn't seem to fit with the rest...

Again, interesting to keep an eye on. Wonder how long it would need to go on before the team starts to consider a change.

Yikes, Gary got to get on board with defence, pretty much confirms what I've been noticing. Hopefully that trend changes.