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  • slaw wrote: View Post

    I would say this is qualitatively different than his usual bullshit cause this is going on all over the place. For example, at my one kids' school, a huge battle is going on over kids being required to get it at some point and there are a whole bunch of kids at the school who have zero vaccines and ain't getting this one (and it is 99% wealthy lefties who typically run everything at the place). We just lost one of our top performers over our company mandate. There is a lot more of this going on than is being reported.
    As much as you point out that is 99% lefties I think it just depends on where you are in the country. Where I went to high school it is super right winged (Abbotsford). Huge population of anti vaxxers out there. They aren't really lefties. I think it is just a new segment of people.

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    • Where I live the anti-vaxxers are exclusively Trump Republicans with some Libertarians mixed in. The lefties are all extremely pro-vax. I live in USA though not Canada.

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      • Primer wrote: View Post
        Where I live the anti-vaxxers are exclusively Trump Republicans with some Libertarians mixed in. The lefties are all extremely pro-vax. I live in USA though not Canada.
        80% of Ontario is vaccinated. I'm not sure this is political issue here.
        Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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        • Primer wrote: View Post
          Where I live the anti-vaxxers are exclusively Trump Republicans with some Libertarians mixed in. The lefties are all extremely pro-vax. I live in USA though not Canada.
          I would argue that because it was made a political issue and statement to be vaxxed or masked etc.. yes more people who align themselves on the right side of the aisle are against vaccination mandates and are less likely to be vaccinated.

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          • Primer wrote: View Post
            Where I live the anti-vaxxers are exclusively Trump Republicans with some Libertarians mixed in. The lefties are all extremely pro-vax. I live in USA though not Canada.
            Go to a predominantly black neighborhood and ask around.
            It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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            • KeonClark wrote: View Post

              Go to a predominantly black neighborhood and ask around.
              that is much more complex .... tuskegee

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              • Long before a certain "president" made it a political decision and long before covid, there was always a segment of society that was anti vaxx (just anti the regular, boring ones). They likely didn't belong to any one political group and that's probably what we have now in Canada. In the States, as mentioned above, it's mostly a political thing.
                To paraphrase a smart quote I heard on a different issue, once global warming became a political issue and not a scientific issue, it was doomed.
                Now, on to basketball and Everything 2021-2022 season. Speaking of which, Horford has covid.

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                • Jclaw wrote: View Post
                  Long before a certain "president" made it a political decision and long before covid, there was always a segment of society that was anti vaxx (just anti the regular, boring ones). They likely didn't belong to any one political group and that's probably what we have now in Canada. In the States, as mentioned above, it's mostly a political thing.
                  To paraphrase a smart quote I heard on a different issue, once global warming became a political issue and not a scientific issue, it was doomed.
                  Now, on to basketball and Everything 2021-2022 season. Speaking of which, Horford has covid.
                  It would be great if our favourite president of basketball operations stood up in front of a crowd and said "F%&k COVID."

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                  • Jclaw wrote: View Post
                    Long before a certain "president" made it a political decision and long before covid, there was always a segment of society that was anti vaxx (just anti the regular, boring ones). They likely didn't belong to any one political group and that's probably what we have now in Canada. In the States, as mentioned above, it's mostly a political thing.
                    To paraphrase a smart quote I heard on a different issue, once global warming became a political issue and not a scientific issue, it was doomed.
                    Now, on to basketball and Everything 2021-2022 season. Speaking of which, Horford has covid.
                    that particular individual could have touted his own VAX because his administration helped to develop them but instead he didn't go in that direction

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                    • I'm pretty suspicious of the general covid hysteria by this point. Absolutely on board with flatten the curve and make sure health facilities are not overwhelmed. Also, high risk demographics should be getting vaccinated and restrictions may be needed at times. But early treatment is important and being totally ignored in "vaccines only" countries like ours. People are literally just sent home until their health is bad enough to need ICU care. This is crazy and an approach many countries, ones that have fought their way out of delta and ones that have never bottomed out with delta, are not taking. It's arguably malpractice and certainly has cost lives. But our hubris/myopic approach/fanaticism for the patent protected products of major pharmaceuticals is all pretty remarkable, we are determined to maintain the course we've set, emerging information and learning as we go be damned.

                      Anyway, 397 Canadians in my age bracket (40-49) have died from COVID so far. That would round to about ~265 over 12 months. Over 2,000 Canadians in my age bracket die from cancer every year. Over 1,000 die in accidents. Over 800 from heart disease. Over 600 commit suicide.

                      I'm more than 20 times more likely to die from any of the 10 leading causes of death for 40-49 year olds than I am from COVID this year. 4.8 million Canadians in this age bracket, 397 COVID deaths.

                      Severe COVID outcomes skew heavily towards the elderly and pre-existing conditions like obesity, respiratory issues, immunocompromised people. Last I heard about a month ago, the average age in AB for COVID deaths was 80. High risk people need to be protected with vaccines. On the other side, frightened parents and educators are starting to advocate for childhood vaccinations - where the risk of an adverse vaccine reaction is literally higher than the risk of COVID. Some policies that were initially and demonstrably about health have completely lost the plot, some of what's happening now borders on religious fanaticism. It won't stop short of 100% vaccination, by nearly any means, and we'll continue to turn on each other until we get there. We've already moved the goalposts well past the "80% for herd immunity" target and haven't even bothered to set the next one. Just get everybody vaccinated.

                      I don't understand the broad strokes. Our public health strategy should be targeted and multifaceted. It's oversimplified, coming at great expense to a lot of people, and arguably is facilitating emergence of variants. There are good public health arguments for the role of natural immunity and a number of countries incorporating that factor into their COVID response. Not us, we just need more vaccines. Praise be to Pfizer.

                      There's so much to learn from other countries. We don't know why countries in Africa, with barriers to vaccine access and middling implementation of response efforts/restrictions, are not anywhere near worst case scenarios 18 months into this pandemic. Several Scandinavian countries have stopped using Moderna for people under 30 due to a growing body of data on adverse effects. I believe Iceland has stopped using Moderna altogether. Meanwhile we've got people getting additional jabs if they didn't get MRNA the first time around and were lining up Pfizer boosters due to dropping effectiveness after just a few months, after our government loudly declared "Quit vaccine shopping they're all good, take whichever one you get."

                      And I do not think the end justifies the means, no matter how noble the goals. Some of the current policies are not good in a free or democratic society. Some of the countries most hesitant with lockdowns, or with the most pushback against mandates and passports, are ones that have lived under facism in the last ~50 years. It's not just Trumpers protesting mandates and passports, it's young people in Paris, Italians, other Europeans, Canadians. It's got nothing to do with left/right, a framing pro-mandate/pro-passport advocates have successfully made here and in the US. I don't think it's hyperbole at all to call this level of government intervention authoritarianism. Democratic governments mandating needles in arms? Restricting who is in your house? Restricting the travel of citizens? Not just over a few days or weeks in a sudden emergency mind you, but over years. With no end in sight. I don't see an end game with a vaccines-only strategy. These vaccines don't eliminate COVID liek they did polio, and, at least some or them, already don't appear to stand up over time. We're going to have increasing breakthroughs, boosters, dropping effectiveness, and emerging evidence of adverse reactions. We're going to have to decide what to do with all those risk factors at some point because we aren't getting to 0% or 'post-COVID', ever.

                      Most disappointing I think is how eager most Canadians are to be policed and to police each other. I'm a lot more inclined to want to be in a more liberal society - and at times to live with the consequences.

                      “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” - - CS Lewis

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                      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                      • S.R. wrote: View Post

                        Anyway, 397 Canadians in my age bracket (40-49) have died from COVID so far. That would round to about ~265 over 12 months. Over 2,000 Canadians in my age bracket die from cancer every year. Over 1,000 die in accidents. Over 800 from heart disease. Over 600 commit suicide.

                        I'm more than 20 times more likely

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                        Some valid points but there's always a bit of a flaw in this sort of comparison. Sure, based on these numbers, covid had only about 10% of the deaths of cancer. But all those other things (cancer, accidents, suicide) already exist. It's never good when you add a new category even if it's only one tenth as deadly as cancer. It carries more weight than the actual numbers. Kind of like when HIV came on the scene. Anyways, I came on here to make a basketball post so....back to that.

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                        • Seeing a lot of people choosing the under for the Raps win total this year. Is that classic overlooking the Raptors or is it based on the fact that we'll play our interdivisional games against the sixers, c*^@tics, nets and knicks? I think they're sleeping on us, no?

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                          • I think we are closer to the 6th best team in the conference then the 10th. It's only preseason but the game against Boston showed where we stacked up against playoff teams. Due to the influx of good teams in the East we might be in the 7th or 8th and have to be in the play-in.

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                            • S.R. wrote: View Post

                              Most disappointing I think is how eager most Canadians are to be policed and to police each other. I'm a lot more inclined to want to be in a more liberal society - and at times to live with the consequences.

                              “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” - - CS Lewis

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                              All valid points S.R. For some reason health officials are not following the available data that has been accumulated and there is no discussion of using any treatment other than vaccination. They cancelled the most recent drug treatment trial because it was determined to be unethical to withhold the treatment from the control group, which had 8 fatalities as opposed to zero for those receiving treatment. As I understand it numerous countries are using early intervention with drug treatment to control symptoms and avoid overcrowding their health units. I keep hoping this all gets sorted out rationally.

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                              • S.R. wrote: View Post
                                .

                                “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” - - CS Lewis

                                ​​​​​
                                Key takeaway: CS Lewis was a married man.

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