Everything 2021-2022 Season

[big boi]

I'm always suspect of guys like KAT and Beal that are studs on offense, have been around the league for a while and their teams have never been able to win with them.

In a salary cap league, where defense is half of the game, it is not an efficient way to use valuable and finite resources to pay max money for a player that can only play half of the game well. It's a totally inefficient spend. Defense comes at a huge discount compared to offense, and the best offensive players in the league are capped as far as how much money they can earn, so you may as well pay one that plays defense.

I want the raps to have a defensive brand, whereby no matter what they might have on offense, they'll guard you. It seems that that is the direction we've headed anyway, and I want it to continue and to be the Raptor's calling card.

[planetmars]

I don't really mind one-way guys so much anymore. I used to, but the league has shifted. You can win with scoring. Just have to play great team defense, which is easy to do now a days. I mean the Bulls have the 5th best defense and they have Vucevic, DeRozan and LaVine all playing heavy minutes.

[MixxAOR]

I wonder if Bjorken and Turner have good relationship

[bertarapsfan]

I wonder if Bjorken and Turner have good relationship

If i had to guess i would say no.. Reports seems to say he lost the locker room. I guess myles could be the exception. For sure seems like he isnt happy with his role this year, maybe he had a better time under nate

[big boi]

I don't really mind one-way guys so much anymore. I used to, but the league has shifted. You can win with scoring. Just have to play great team defense, which is easy to do now a days. I mean the Bulls have the 5th best defense and they have Vucevic, DeRozan and LaVine all playing heavy minutes.

What the Bulls are doing is impressive. But for them the proof will be in the playoffs. I don't think it's "easy to do". I think the Bulls are the exception that proves the rule. We certainly had a hard time hiding Demar and JV's deficiencies on D - when it mattered.

If there's some transcendent talent we could get then yeah, and even then I'd hope he could play D at an average level (when Harden was discussed as a target for instance). For the very most part what I said stands though, no point in paying (a non top 10-15 player let's say) all star max money to not defend. If you want to win championships anyway. That is why those players generally flatter to deceive, particularly when it counts.

[golden]

I wonder if Bjorken and Turner have good relationship

Kind of a mixed bag.

https://sports.yahoo.com/wouldnt-let...223426240.html

[planetmars]

What the Bulls are doing is impressive. But for them the proof will be in the playoffs. I don't think it's "easy to do". I think the Bulls are the exception that proves the rule. We certainly had a hard time hiding Demar and JV's deficiencies on D - when it mattered.

If there's some transcendent talent we could get then yeah, and even then I'd hope he could play D at an average level (when Harden was discussed as a target for instance). For the very most part what I said stands though, no point in paying (a non top 10-15 player let's say) all star max money to not defend. If you want to win championships anyway. That is why those players generally flatter to deceive, particularly when it counts.

Could just be recency bias talking.. but Trae Young's team almost made the finals, and probably could have if he didn't get hurt. Booker's team actually did make the finals. Teams like Chicago and Charlotte are succeeding but don't have a lot of great individual defenders. Yet the Knicks and Raptors have some pretty great individual defenders, and elite defensive coaches'.. yet both collectively suck right now.

[A.I]

Could just be recency bias talking.. but Trae Young's team almost made the finals, and probably could have if he didn't get hurt. Booker's team actually did make the finals. Teams like Chicago and Charlotte are succeeding but don't have a lot of great individual defenders. Yet the Knicks and Raptors have some pretty great individual defenders, and elite defensive coaches'.. yet both collectively suck right now.

None of them won a championship though. All the champions have had top tier defenders on their teams. Giannis, Holiday, Tucker, AD, Lebron, Kawhi, Gasol and so on.

[planetmars]

None of them won a championship though. All the champions have had top tier defenders on their teams. Giannis, Holiday, Tucker, AD, Lebron, Kawhi, Gasol and so on.

Lebron isn't a top tier defender, especially at his age.. but even then Milwaukee was pretty close in getting upset. If Trae didn't get hurt they likely would have.
I think if you have enough capable defenders around your offensive star that sucks at defense, you'll do okay. Playoffs can be a crapshoot. I mean Luka's team for example almost beat Kawhi and George and the Clippers in the bubble. The Clippers eventually lost to Jokic and Murray's team.

[chris]

None of them won a championship though. All the champions have had top tier defenders on their teams. Giannis, Holiday, Tucker, AD, Lebron, Kawhi, Gasol and so on.

not only did they have top tier defenders, they didn't really have any weak links in the starting or crunch time lineups either. ppl will point to steph but i'd say he was only weak compared all-defense level defenders surrounding him. tony parker might be the last champ i can think of who you could say was below average defensively, but look who he was surrounded by.

i agree with big boi that it's hard to win at a high level paying max level money for one way players

[A.I]

Lebron isn't a top tier defender, especially at his age.. but even then Milwaukee was pretty close in getting upset. If Trae didn't get hurt they likely would have.
I think if you have enough capable defenders around your offensive star that sucks at defense, you'll do okay. Playoffs can be a crapshoot. I mean Luka's team for example almost beat Kawhi and George and the Clippers in the bubble. The Clippers eventually lost to Jokic and Murray's team.

I agree that if your star is an average defender but terrific offensively, it can work. Your offensive production just has to outweigh your defensive issues. You also have to surround your star with some defenders.

[MixxAOR]

I agree that if your star is an average defender but terrific offensively, it can work. Your offensive production just has to outweigh your defensive issues. You also have to surround your star with some defenders.

and then there's Blazers. who are just so bad for no reason lol

[inthepaint]

It's important to have a balance. Someone needs to put the ball in the hoop. Since 2016, every champion had good defenders, but there was also always a player averaging 25+ppg.

Since our championship, I feel we have underrated the importance of offence a bit (at least a good part of the fanbase). if there's a trade speculation involving someone with some defensive limitations (even it's not a black hole, just passable, standard D), people get skittish, even if said player is an offence powerhouse. Not everyone of course, but I heard people saying they freakin' didn't want Karl-Anthony-Towns, one the most impactful offence players in the league (at age 25), because they "weren't so sure about his defence"

I think it will take a feel cycles of us going through long scoring draughts and looking lost on offence over a few playoffs (or failaing to make the playoff in the first place due to lack of firepower), for this part of the fanbase to start assigning more value to putting the ball in the hoop again.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I don't think KAT is as bad a defender as Sabonis. I'd say KAT is average. Offensively though? He is a star.

honestly he isn't . He has become a better defensive player as of late. I don't think people realize how bad Sabonis is defensively. It's almost as bad as Enes Kanter. He is good offensively but I honestly don't think our offense from the cent er spot is the issue. Sabonis gets rebounds BUT our issue isn't defensive rebounds as much as we think. Turner could space the floor and play a major part. He may not be the guy but that is problem. He wouldn't have issues getting chacnes in this system. There is more than enough opportunity for him to get 30 minutes a night. Once you ship out boucher the back up power forward spot can go to precious so precious could play back up C and back up power forward. Khem slides in to a more natural back up spot when healthy. Gives him a chance to get healthy instead of trying to run him out for two games at a time.

[big boi]

Could just be recency bias talking.. but Trae Young's team almost made the finals, and probably could have if he didn't get hurt. Booker's team actually did make the finals. Teams like Chicago and Charlotte are succeeding but don't have a lot of great individual defenders. Yet the Knicks and Raptors have some pretty great individual defenders, and elite defensive coaches'.. yet both collectively suck right now.

Yeah, Atlanta is a pretty good example. I haven't checked the stats but Phoenix seem like a pretty good defensive outfit. In any case, I'd take Trae Young and Booker on this team if Atlanta and Phoenix want to part with them : )

But that's not really what we're discussing though is it, it's players like Sabonis, or KAT, or Beal. Players that it would cost up to a King's ransom to acquire but aren't good defensively. I'm not sure that makes sense to take your shot - mortgage your future - for a player that is probably never going to do a good job at guarding his position. I'll take someone that is a willing defender and is either average or can get there, can fit well in to a team defense that can somehow make up for his deficiencies. If a guy is a sieve defensively, plays turnstile defense and is essentially just instant offense - on both ends of the court, pass.

With the challenges the Raps have in free agency, I don't think we have the luxury of spending money inefficiently on luxury players that don't play D. I'm biased though, Ideally I want all of our players to play D and to be above average at it. And I want our good players to be good to great defensively. I think it's a competitive advantage and we need all the advantages we can get to get back to contending.