Everything 2021-2022 Season

[Kagemusha]

Still 'doing your own research', eh?

You and Robin Lopez.

(Haven't you been given several warnings on here for spewing ignorance?
Maybe stick to your dubious thoughts on basketball. At least your idiocy in that department is harmless.)

Ignorance eh?
Like the jabbed ones are 100% bullet proof?

And, how can you explain Lebron's apprehension if he's fully sold on your science?
How can you explain the US Congress not mandating it on their staff.
Explain the Israel case.

Good luck!

And oh, we are all entitled to our opinions.
Stop with the narcissistic cancel attitude.

[DanH]

Ignorance eh?
Like the jabbed ones are 100% bullet proof?

And, how can you explain Lebron's apprehension if he's fully sold on your science?
How can you explain the US Congress not mandating it on their staff.
Explain the Israel case.

Good luck!

And oh, we are all entitled to our opinions.
Stop with the narcissistic cancel attitude.

Everyone is indeed entitled to their own opinions, no matter how misguided they are. And anyone voicing their opinions should be prepared for the consequences of those opinions being voiced.

Those opinions do not however invalidate the facts of the situation. Which are a) no it is not 100% effective and b) whether a vaccine is 100% effective is entirely irrelevant, which you know, of course, as does everyone who brings up these points purely for the purpose of being contrarian with no interest in actually finding out the answers (unless they are idiots, which I don't believe you are).

[slaw]

Issac trusted doctors when they operated on his ACL and when he was recovering but virology is where he draws the line. Idiot

Isaac's statement was cogent and well expressed. It was not 'idiotic' at all as he stated quite clearly the risk analysis he was making and it is as compelling a case as can be made: he has natural immunity, his age and fitness level weigh against vaccination, and though he acknowledges it may reduce his symptoms if he caught it again that doesn't outweigh the risk (rare as he acknowledges) that he could have an adverse reaction to the vaccine.

The counter argument is that he should be required to sacrifice his individual choice for the public good but no one can in good faith argue what he said is irrational or ignorant.

[meductic]

First year Poli Sci… freedoms vs responsibilities. Freedom of speech… you have the freedom of speech but you do not have the freedom to stand up in a crowded theatre and shout “Fire” when there isn’t one because you either know or should know it could cause a stampede resulting in personal harm. Example number two: you cannot say, as Rudy Giuliani did, that voting machines are being manipulated by the Cubans and Hugo Chavez when this is patently false, unless you want to be banned from web platforms and sued by the Canadian company who owned the machines for a billion dollars because you just impeded their business. In the present case approximately 80% of vaccine eligible Canadians are vaccinated and yet they make up less than 20% of the current COVID cases and far fewer if any of the hospitalized cases. If you want to say that the long term effect of vaccines is unproven and could be harmful you may have a case. But to say that vaccines don’t work you are being negligent, either wilfully or through stupidity, and personally I think you have abdicated the right of free speech and should be banned from the site.

[Primer]

Isaac's statement was cogent and well expressed. It was not 'idiotic' at all as he stated quite clearly the risk analysis he was making and it is as compelling a case as can be made: he has natural immunity, his age and fitness level weigh against vaccination, and though he acknowledges it may reduce his symptoms if he caught it again that doesn't outweigh the risk (rare as he acknowledges) that he could have an adverse reaction to the vaccine.

The counter argument is that he should be required to sacrifice his individual choice for the public good but no one can in good faith argue what he said is irrational or ignorant.

That statement is literally false for everyone. There is no health profile that weighs against getting the vaccine. There are no negative health consequences to the vaccine.

[S.R.]

I think it's fair to question vaccination as THE public health strategy in this case, I think there's a lot of denial currently about the significance of a) vaccines that provide less than 100% protection (which something like the polio vaccine did), and b) global vaccine inequity which means less than half the global eligible population has their first dose and there are billions of unvaccinated people, the virus is going to continue to thrive and variants are going to develop for quite some time here - if not forever. Vaccines developed to fight alpha will have varying levels of efficacy against subsequent variants e.g. delta, which is more transmissible but lower acute case rates - but still, different than alpha, even for fully vaccinated (and much worse for the unvaccinated). I think most people absolutely should get vaccinated, we do have to manage transmission rates and health care capacity, we can't be burning out health care staff or overwhelming facilities, but there are also public health experts making cases for public health responses other than vaccinations as the final solution (e.g. the role of natural immunity), but that has all been flattened out to simple, singular message and for some reason zero nuance is allowed right now. I get it from the public health end where messaging has to be simple to be effective, but current policies may have an impact down the road where vaccines as 'leaky' as the current COVID vaccines (in the amount of transmission they still allow) are long-term dangerous for public health as they facilitate the emergence of variants that these same vaccines are less effective against, the exact same way sueprbugs emerge in the gaps allowed by antibiotics. Some are advocating for a more multi-faceted public health response that includes current vaccines but not only current vaccines, that accounts for natural immunity, and that makes use of medication and treatments that reduce the severity of cases (for vaccinated and unvaccinated alike) - which is already being done in a number of countries as public policy but is not allowed even as a discussion point here in NA.

Interestingly a number of countries already assess and allow as an immunity factor the natural immunity gained from having gotten and recovered from COVID, this is happening in Europe but is still not being adopted into strategies or policies in NA. Bradley Beal could have the exact same opinion he has (having caught and recovered from COVID already) and he'd be cleared in Germany but he's demonized in the USA.

Basically I think we're in a more complicated situation than our public health departments will publicly acknowledge and don't care for people just finger pointing and yelling 'you're the idiot!' from one side or the other (general comment, not directed at anyone here). I think people should be getting vaccinated AND I don't think we're vaccinating our way out of this pandemic. I'd like to see more public discussion and less propaganda and authoritarianism, I don't know when we decided the end justifies the means but here we are we've now accepted that my premier will be the one telling my family if my kids can see grandma and grandpa at Christmas or not.

[slaw]

That statement is literally false for everyone. There is no health profile that weighs against getting the vaccine. There are no negative health consequences to the vaccine.

I'm not going to argue with you but you don't have enough evidence to make your second statement (which is false in any case as adverse reactions including deaths have resulted from taking the various vaccines) and suggesting that a professional athlete is at the same risk from COVID as a 90-year old is absurd and you know that.

[MixxAOR]

I'm not going to argue with you but you don't have enough evidence to make your second statement (which is false in any case as adverse reactions including deaths have resulted from taking the various vaccines) and suggesting that a professional athlete is at the same risk from COVID as a 90-year old is absurd and you know that.

it's all "me me me." That's what it is. Selfish. He might be save but him and all other anti-vaxxers not vaccinating helps for new strains to develop and put those 90-year old in danger.

It's a public concern but yeah your personal liberty doesn't override that.

[Limited Upside]

I'm not going to argue with you but you don't have enough evidence to make your second statement (which is false in any case as adverse reactions including deaths have resulted from taking the various vaccines) and suggesting that a professional athlete is at the same risk from COVID as a 90-year old is absurd and you know that.

Yeah, except it's not just about Jonathon Isaac getting the shot to protect Jonathon Isaac. It's about getting the shot so that he doesn't infect his grandmother, his trainer who has an immuno-compromised kid at home, the teller at the bank who is a cancer survivor, etc. Fucking strawmen GTFO. We're 2 years into this thing, the rest of us have no time for 10% of the population (excepting those with a medical reason) who are still clinging to some BS personal liberty argument.

[meductic]

I guess that I will make it personal and state that I travel a lot and know people in their 40’s who have caught the disease and recovered, caught the disease and continue to suffer from long COVID, and caught the disease and died. They wished they had the opportunity to be vaccinated. All of these people were in there 40’s and younger. So how do you tell who is low risk? Sweden was the model country that went for herd immunity and relented with the minister of health apologizing while admitting that it was an abject failure. Secondly, in this case, individual behaviour effects the common good. We are interdependent and do not live in bubbles. But the narrow comment was vaccines do not work. Not whether they will be effective as the disease develops. Not whether the premier is outside of his lane. Do vaccines as currently constituted work? My statement was and continues to be that it is totally irresponsible to say that they do not!

[Primer]

I'm not going to argue with you but you don't have enough evidence to make your second statement (which is false in any case as adverse reactions including deaths have resulted from taking the various vaccines) and suggesting that a professional athlete is at the same risk from COVID as a 90-year old is absurd and you know that.

The risks from the vaccine vs the risks from covid. It's not even remotely close, several orders of magnitude different.

It's far less risky for everyone to get the vaccine than to get covid, for both short term and long term health, for themselves and those around them.

The delta variant has proven to be much deadlier to younger age groups than the alpha variant. The vaccines have shown to still be incredibly effective at preventing hospitalization and death, even against the delta variant.

The only dangerous adverse reaction to the vaccines was the blood clot issue with AstraZeneca which is not available in the USA so irrelevant to NBA players, and the J&J vaccine which was so incredibly low they continue to use J&J vaccine, the risk was an order of magnitude lower than from birth control pills for context.

In the USA you have to get a dozen vaccines just to attend school (I believe it's the same in Canada), this has always been the case, and those vaccines all have higher rates of side effects than the covid vaccines. Everyone gets them without complaint because the diseases they protect against are far far worse than any vaccine side effect, just like covid is. I'm not sure why Wiggins takes such offense to the covid vaccine and not the dozen vaccines he had to get to attend University of Kansas.

[Garbo]

Oh, good! I’ve finally found a place on the internet to argue about vaccines!

I guess this does technically fit as “off season” related, but really? How could anyone possibly still have an appetite for this?

[Bendit]

Glad there seem to be no vax deniers on the Raptors (there is 1 who has yet to take their second shot as of yesterday!

[Yuri Gagarin]

After the last american presidency and pandemic the internet is plummeting on my list of best inventions ever

[Dvdvideo]

After the last american presidency and pandemic the internet is plummeting on my list of best inventions ever

Honestly, I felt like I went from being a child to an adult, like losing my innocence. I thought people were better overall. Not to say there aren't still a lot of good people, sad to say it just seems to be a lot more that don't care about anything or anyone besides themselves. Who cares about the group, who cares about democracy, as long as I get what I want now. And don't tell me what to do, or I won't do anything.