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  • DanH wrote: View Post

    They have no way to keep Wilson on a real contract (not even a real 10-day, can only do these non-cap hardship deals) until they shed salary unless they are willing to risk going into the tax - which they almost certainly are not. I suspect they give him this 10 day and then just hope he's still there to be had by the time they resolve the Dragic situation with a trade or buyout.
    Dragic's minimum is about $2.6M. If we get can buy him out for that amount, will that save us enough money to get Wilson and clear the tax? Let's say Dragic signs with Dallas or Miami for the vet min. So Dragic nets his $19M anyway. Could be a win-win if the math works for us. Not sure how much we'd have to clear via buyout to afford DJ and not dip into the tax.

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    • planetmars wrote: View Post
      DJ "Jazzy" Wilson is back:

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      • DanH wrote: View Post

        I suspect they give him this 10 day and then just hope he's still there to be had by the time they resolve the Dragic situation with a trade or buyout.
        Its more likely he will be picked up fast by someone else . Teams now know that the standards to get minutes on the Raptors team is quite high because a certain caliber of high level attitude pedigree is usually always present. Its no wonder former Raptors like Alfonzo Mckinnie and Stanley Johnson were picked up by good teams cause they know if you were a Raptors chances are good you play good defense with intensity, have a good attitude and listen to your coach.

        There are some Raptor fans clamoring to get Boogie after he was waived by the Bucks. Well there is a reason why he was waived by the Bucks (not the media version) and there is a reason why he won't be picked up by the Raptors.

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        • planetmars wrote: View Post

          Dragic's minimum is about $2.6M. If we get can buy him out for that amount, will that save us enough money to get Wilson and clear the tax? Let's say Dragic signs with Dallas or Miami for the vet min. So Dragic nets his $19M anyway. Could be a win-win if the math works for us. Not sure how much we'd have to clear via buyout to afford DJ and not dip into the tax.
          Yeah, any money coming off his salary comes off our cap/tax calcs.

          But, he won't get 2.6M for the rest of the season. He'll get that pro-rated to how many games are left. At the same time, of course, whoever we sign for the minimum will also sign for a pro-rated amount. So it is definitely plenty to sign one more player (but not two more, couldn't go to 15 guys, would just replace Dragic as the 14th guy).

          The exact amount we need Dragic to give back depends on when we do it. The earlier we want to sign a rest-of-season deal, the more room we need. A full season minimum for Wilson (assuming we would want to sign him to a multi-season deal) would be 1.79M. On that salary scale, one day of service costs $10,343. And we are starting with $18,000 or so in room under the tax. So if Dragic gave up $1M, we could sign Wilson to 94 days of service. Also known as: yesterday. So long story short, if Dragic even gives back $1M, we can do it now. Throw in the 10 days we already have him on a hardship deal, and he only needs to give up ~$900k.

          And if Dragic then turns around and signs a deal right away at his minimum (2.64M), assuming we waive him now, that minimum for 93 days is actually $1.42M, so he comes out $500k up. Or, let's say he struggles to find a place to land until the more typical beginning of March timeframe for waived players, then he's only getting $610k. So he'd then be losing money by giving back $900k in the buyout. Still might do it, considering it's very little money lost compared to his salary, but those order of magnitude arguments seem to prevail pretty rarely in the NBA, no one wants to give back money unless they are desperate.

          If the Raps wanted to sign two guys to fill that Dragic slot immediately and go to 15, they would need him to give back essentially twice as much - so nearly $2M of his salary if they do it right now.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • Oh, and on a more speculative note: I doubt they will do a Dragic buyout until after the deadline. I suspect they value the potential, however unlikely, to be able to use him as salary ballast or even as some limited value in a trade over the ability to add a real 14th guy now, no matter how much they like the new fringe guy.
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • Hotshot wrote: View Post

              Its more likely he will be picked up fast by someone else . Teams now know that the standards to get minutes on the Raptors team is quite high because a certain caliber of high level attitude pedigree is usually always present. Its no wonder former Raptors like Alfonzo Mckinnie and Stanley Johnson were picked up by good teams cause they know if you were a Raptors chances are good you play good defense with intensity, have a good attitude and listen to your coach.

              There are some Raptor fans clamoring to get Boogie after he was waived by the Bucks. Well there is a reason why he was waived by the Bucks (not the media version) and there is a reason why he won't be picked up by the Raptors.
              It is weird though that Boogie can't keep a job. By all accounts he still looks like an above average backup big
              9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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              • DanH wrote: View Post
                Oh, and on a more speculative note: I doubt they will do a Dragic buyout until after the deadline. I suspect they value the potential, however unlikely, to be able to use him as salary ballast or even as some limited value in a trade over the ability to add a real 14th guy now, no matter how much they like the new fringe guy.
                The Raptors seem to value flexibility over anything else, and keeping the $19M cap ballast in a trade as an option, is probably more valuable than whatever DJ Wilson can provide up until the deadline. I could see them staying pat until then too.

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                • DanH wrote: View Post

                  Yeah, any money coming off his salary comes off our cap/tax calcs.

                  But, he won't get 2.6M for the rest of the season. He'll get that pro-rated to how many games are left. At the same time, of course, whoever we sign for the minimum will also sign for a pro-rated amount. So it is definitely plenty to sign one more player (but not two more, couldn't go to 15 guys, would just replace Dragic as the 14th guy).

                  The exact amount we need Dragic to give back depends on when we do it. The earlier we want to sign a rest-of-season deal, the more room we need. A full season minimum for Wilson (assuming we would want to sign him to a multi-season deal) would be 1.79M. On that salary scale, one day of service costs $10,343. And we are starting with $18,000 or so in room under the tax. So if Dragic gave up $1M, we could sign Wilson to 94 days of service. Also known as: yesterday. So long story short, if Dragic even gives back $1M, we can do it now. Throw in the 10 days we already have him on a hardship deal, and he only needs to give up ~$900k.

                  And if Dragic then turns around and signs a deal right away at his minimum (2.64M), assuming we waive him now, that minimum for 93 days is actually $1.42M, so he comes out $500k up. Or, let's say he struggles to find a place to land until the more typical beginning of March timeframe for waived players, then he's only getting $610k. So he'd then be losing money by giving back $900k in the buyout. Still might do it, considering it's very little money lost compared to his salary, but those order of magnitude arguments seem to prevail pretty rarely in the NBA, no one wants to give back money unless they are desperate.

                  If the Raps wanted to sign two guys to fill that Dragic slot immediately and go to 15, they would need him to give back essentially twice as much - so nearly $2M of his salary if they do it right now.
                  Thanks for the breakdown, real solid stuff.

                  I am willing to forgive and praise Dragic if he leaves some money on the table ($2 Million) and agrees to a buyout from the Raptors just so we can all move on. But if he decides to penny pinching while practicing BBall and eating some mango popsicle on Miami beach, I will not.

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                  • DanH wrote: View Post
                    Oh, and on a more speculative note: I doubt they will do a Dragic buyout until after the deadline. I suspect they value the potential, however unlikely, to be able to use him as salary ballast or even as some limited value in a trade over the ability to add a real 14th guy now, no matter how much they like the new fringe guy.
                    Is there any value in just keeping him for a playoff run if there isn't a trade available?

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                    • KeonClark wrote: View Post

                      It is weird though that Boogie can't keep a job. By all accounts he still looks like an above average backup big
                      That attitude of his, not always playing with intensity, and arguing with coaches for minutes will do that.

                      Imagine Boogie coming to the Raptors. Lots of players would look up to him but do we really need Boogie in Scottie Barnes ear?! nah. How long before he throws a fit after being benched by Nurse for missing his defensive assignments?! you know that would be coming.

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                      • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

                        Is there any value in just keeping him for a playoff run if there isn't a trade available?
                        We had hoped so, but Nurse buried him early and the relationship seems over. To me he didn't seem THAT bad to bury right off the bat. He was just kind of "meh", but not like he was turning the ball over or killing us really. Really a shame that he didn't get more time to figure out his role and new situation, because that hole at backup point (and bench scoring in general) is glaring and if had anything close to Miami Dragic right now it would vault us up another notch.
                        9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                        • KeonClark wrote: View Post

                          We had hoped so, but Nurse buried him early and the relationship seems over. To me he didn't seem THAT bad to bury right off the bat. He was just kind of "meh", but not like he was turning the ball over or killing us really. Really a shame that he didn't get more time to figure out his role and new situation, because that hole at backup point (and bench scoring in general) is glaring and if had anything close to Miami Dragic right now it would vault us up another notch.
                          Exactly.

                          Nurse completely buried his trade value (even though on a recent interview with JJ Redick, he said that part of being a coach is to try to make sure you also keep in mind a player trade value so it's always up). Maybe there is more to the story then we know, maybe Dragic in fact wasn't giving it all like Nurse wanted (in both practice & game) cause he always saw the Raptors as a temporary situation.

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                          • KeonClark wrote: View Post

                            We had hoped so, but Nurse buried him early and the relationship seems over. To me he didn't seem THAT bad to bury right off the bat. He was just kind of "meh", but not like he was turning the ball over or killing us really. Really a shame that he didn't get more time to figure out his role and new situation, because that hole at backup point (and bench scoring in general) is glaring and if had anything close to Miami Dragic right now it would vault us up another notch.
                            yeah I agree with you. I think they could have spent more time figuring out a role for him. I am not saying he significantly helped us in any of the wins but he definitely didn't harm us. He was a step too slow though both offensively and defensively. I just feel like there aren't many "vets" that would be useful for this team and would fit. EXCEPT one but he doesn't fit our timeline. Thaddeus Young. Honestly He would help this team so much. He could be a stretch-5 he can defend, rebound, pass. He can do a lot of stuff but long term it doesn't make sense. I'd even say if there are no spots left and he becomes a buyout guy I'd nab him if he would be willing to come. It would be perfect.

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                            • Hotshot wrote: View Post

                              Exactly.

                              Nurse completely buried his trade value (even though on a recent interview with JJ Redick, he said that part of being a coach is to try to make sure you also keep in mind a player trade value so it's always up). Maybe there is more to the story then we know, maybe Dragic in fact wasn't giving it all like Nurse wanted (in both practice & game) cause he always saw the Raptors as a temporary situation.
                              That said, would his value have remained elevated had he played for longer in our system? I don't think so. I think it would have gotten lower.

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                              • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

                                That said, would his value have remained elevated had he played for longer in our system? I don't think so. I think it would have gotten lower.
                                Hard to say.

                                Dragic is a vet and probably could have adjusted somewhat (whatever he did, it worked fairly well in Miami & they also value many of the things the Raptors do). I mean Chris Boucher looked absolutely terrible early on when he tried to replicate his last year success by being a 3 & D guy but the only problem it wasn't working. Now Boucher adjusted his game and became useful again by sticking to mostly being an energy guy who scores in transition when the opponent defense is in a state of flux. I am sure Dragic defense is probably bad but he can still be competent shooter and would have helped the bench at times when the offense simply dried out.

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